The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production

analogsa

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i guess it the age older dilemma is if technical perfection is associated with desirable sound qualities


Technical perfection is getting ever more elusive to define. It used to be kind of easy back in the seventies until it became obvious it leads to less and less musical enjoyment. Allegedly the same had already happened in the sixties (semi revolution) and before that in the fifties (pentode revolution). There were also a number of paradigm shifts like the invention of the bass reflex, the ultralinear amp and of course the mosfets which sounded exactly like tubes.

But technical perfection has little to do with my gripes about class D.

Today most of us have come to accept that out of band RF noise plays an important role in the enjoyment of a system.

Quite a few companies manufacture products that enhance the listening space with ultra-low radio frequencies. Do they affect the brain directly? Do they interact with the rest of the system? No clue. But at least on some percentage of listeners those have a profound effect.

Otoh, radio noise above the audio range is generally perceived as being detrimental to musical enjoyment. We try to filter it out at any possible step: coming out of the mains, being radiated by switched mode power supplies, ethernet wiring, routers, dac output etc. And once all power supplies in a system have been linearised, huge isolation transformers filter the mains and all kinds of computer noise has been filtered out we add a powerful long wave transmitter, masquerading as a class D amp.

Interestingly, the "technical perfection" section of measurements never shows what class D outputs at 4-500kHz. And they all do, it's the way they work. So the paradigm shifters will move this to a megahertz and beyond. And how is this good? Would it be ironic if a class D amp is shown to output more Rf garbage in the speaker cables than an entire datacenter worth of routers? :)
 
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spiritofmusic

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I’ve always thought Srajan’s writing was a bit too closely touched by the hyper-threading multiverse vortex out of a postmodern verbiage mixmaster myself... however I must defer...am definitely preferring your take on it, much more eloquent. You’ve just made it a (perhaps not) must read for me.

I get brain hurt concentrating on all the whirling anarchic thought deflections when wading through his text unfortunately. It’s like riding through a live demonstration of string theory. Also I must admit I am never quite sure which product exactly he is talking about as he whips never heard of references in and out of most every other paragraph. There is the odd gem in there at times but it takes very concentrated effort to uncover.
Well Graham, he's 100% to blame for 12 yrs of Zu ownership here...
 

Hear Here

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I tried reading Srajan’s review of the AGD Audion. It’s one of his most discursive, opaque and baroque yet.

They say that French is the language of diplomacy, because you can gesticulate and talk forever without ever saying anything. That’s kinna how I felt trying to machete my way through the verbiage.

I’ve always thought Srajan’s writing was a bit too closely touched by the hyper-threading multiverse vortex out of a postmodern verbiage mixmaster myself... however I must defer...am definitely preferring your take on it, much more eloquent. You’ve just made it a (perhaps not) must read for me.

I get brain hurt concentrating on all the whirling anarchic thought deflections when wading through his text unfortunately. It’s like riding through a live demonstration of string theory. Also I must admit I am never quite sure which product exactly he is talking about as he whips never heard of references in and out of most every other paragraph. There is the odd gem in there at times but it takes very concentrated effort to uncover.

I enjoyed your take on the 6 Moons review. Most of his reviews are 3 or 4 pages, but the AGD one is decidedly bloated at 8 pages.

Perhaps the EnjoyTheMusic review is more digestible - http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0220/AGD_The_Audion_GaNTube_Monoblocks_Review.htm

I'm beginning to warm towards these cute little amps to power my Avantgardes. I hope the Mk II, III, IV, V, etc are not already in the pipeline but come at 2 or 3 year intervals - and of course that they are genuine upgrades. I like the concept of upgradable equipment, but so manufacturers promise it with plug-in module bays, etc but these are rarely offered. Instead they introduce a similar product that has the upgrades one hoped would be offered as a much less costly new module! Peter
 
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the sound of Tao

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Well Graham, he's 100% to blame for 12 yrs of Zu ownership here...
That worked out Marc, I do still regularly look to 6 moons but it does take some work to get through the reviews for me at least because of his style. But there is still value in it for sure. There are plenty of products he reviews that are really interesting and if you read between it all there is some good info in there as well. Just requires an extra layer of analysis to pare things back a bit.
 

bonzo75

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bonzo75

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That worked out Marc, I do still regularly look to 6 moons but it does take some work to get through the reviews for me at least because of his style. But there is still value in it for sure. There are plenty of products he reviews that are really interesting and if you read between it all there is some good info in there as well. Just requires an extra layer of analysis to pare things back a bit.

Srajaen and team have reviewed many of the very low watt amps category that stereophile, TAS, PF, hifi news and audiobeat have jointly missed out on. These are actually the more interesting amps in many ways.

But yes, srajaen is tough to read.
 

Hear Here

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I’m the Avantgarde owner with Audion amps previously mentioned. A few comments:
I have no complaints about what I hear with this speaker/amp combo, but must admit I’m pretty inept at parsing this satisfaction into audiophile terms.

Mike Bovaird, owner of Suncoast Audio/AG dealer/Mezzo owner for several years, tried at least a couple dozen SS amps with the horns. I think the FirstWatt SIT3 ended up his favorite, but the surprising runner-up was the class D MBL Nobles. Of course, overall he preferred tubes ...

My understanding from the Audion designer is that there Is no upgrade path for the smaller monos but the larger models have a more powerful replacement tube option. I believe Srajan has been covering those.
Parker

Hello Parker - I notice you are using AGD Audion amps with Avantgarde Mezzos. I've been considering these little amps for my old AG Duos (soon to be replaced with Duo XD or Mezzo XD) and would greatly appreciate your comments, in particular in relation to other amps you've used with the AGs.

I'm currently using a Class D NAD Master Series M32 after trying a dozen or so SS amps since deciding to switch from tubes. I'm looking at the new Purifi-based NAD M33, the Bakoon 13R or perhaps these AGD Audions - or maybe something completely different! Thanks. Peter
 

pdubya

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Peter--
I'm really crap at audio compare and contrast. The last several weeks I've been using a VIVA 300B integrated. The thing that most stood out for me with the VIVA was that -- even though it's only 8w, and even though the basshorns are self-powered -- there seemed to be more bass than anything else I've used with the Mezzo's. Not mid-bass, but feel-it-in-your-gut bass. I would say overall I prefer the VIVA with the Mezzos, but that preference is not so cut-and-dried that I'm loathe to switch to the FirstWatt SIT3, AGD Audions, or Absolare Integrated. If you can't find a demo set of AGD's, give me a list of some tracks and I'll try to give you some more specific feedback when I swap the VIVA for the AGDs once the summer storm season seems to be settling in.
Purchasing the AGDs was a pragmatic decision as much as anything else. Finding SS amps for the horns is hard enough -- finding suitable SS amps with viable XLR inputs even harder. I wanted to be able to hear the preferred XLR outputs from my Preamp/DAC, wanted something that I could run through a conditioner/surge protector in the summertime (the Absolare hates anything but the wall outlet, and I've lost tubes during a brief outage from a storm 20 miles away), wanted something I could leave on all day (during better weather) whether or not I was home.
I would say, in my system, I prefer the AGD to the FirstWatt and Absolare, but the Absolare loses mainly because I too often hear tube rush, not because it's musically inferior. I also had the class D MBL N51 in the system for a week or so and found it very enjoyable, but the N51 was intended for a different room. I tried the Valvet A4's as well and liked them about as much as the SIT3 (which is to say perfectly adequate but not outstanding in any way to my ears -- I told you I was crap at this) but sent them back because of transformer hum (the dealer said this was easily fixed, but as I didn't find any particular improvement over the FirstWatt didn't see any reason to re-audition). And I've used one of my Luxman m900u's with the Mezzo''s -- I'm sure the amp never left class A. It sounded great to me, but it was intended for a different system.
Again, if you send me a list of some tracks, I'll see if I can give you more specific feedback when I swap out. Hopefully you can find a demo pair -- they are extremely lightweight and ship in a great little flight case.
Parker
 

Hear Here

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Peter--
I'm really crap at audio compare and contrast. The last several weeks I've been using a VIVA 300B integrated. The thing that most stood out for me with the VIVA was that -- even though it's only 8w, and even though the basshorns are self-powered -- there seemed to be more bass than anything else I've used with the Mezzo's. Not mid-bass, but feel-it-in-your-gut bass. I would say overall I prefer the VIVA with the Mezzos, but that preference is not so cut-and-dried that I'm loathe to switch to the FirstWatt SIT3, AGD Audions, or Absolare Integrated. If you can't find a demo set of AGD's, give me a list of some tracks and I'll try to give you some more specific feedback when I swap the VIVA for the AGDs once the summer storm season seems to be settling in.
Purchasing the AGDs was a pragmatic decision as much as anything else. Finding SS amps for the horns is hard enough -- finding suitable SS amps with viable XLR inputs even harder. I wanted to be able to hear the preferred XLR outputs from my Preamp/DAC, wanted something that I could run through a conditioner/surge protector in the summertime (the Absolare hates anything but the wall outlet, and I've lost tubes during a brief outage from a storm 20 miles away), wanted something I could leave on all day (during better weather) whether or not I was home.
I would say, in my system, I prefer the AGD to the FirstWatt and Absolare, but the Absolare loses mainly because I too often hear tube rush, not because it's musically inferior. I also had the class D MBL N51 in the system for a week or so and found it very enjoyable, but the N51 was intended for a different room. I tried the Valvet A4's as well and liked them about as much as the SIT3 (which is to say perfectly adequate but not outstanding in any way to my ears -- I told you I was crap at this) but sent them back because of transformer hum (the dealer said this was easily fixed, but as I didn't find any particular improvement over the FirstWatt didn't see any reason to re-audition). And I've used one of my Luxman m900u's with the Mezzo''s -- I'm sure the amp never left class A. It sounded great to me, but it was intended for a different system.
Again, if you send me a list of some tracks, I'll see if I can give you more specific feedback when I swap out. Hopefully you can find a demo pair -- they are extremely lightweight and ship in a great little flight case.
Parker
Thanks Parker. I've been trying numerous ss amps over the last 2 or 3 years after deciding to move away from tubes for a number of reasons.

I'm not familiar with most of the amps you mentioned and I guess many are not even available here in UK. There are unlikely to be any AGDs here although Alberto has offered a free of penalty (apart from carriage) return if I'm not happy with the Audions. I'm seriously considering this, but would ideally like their arrival to coincide with the loan of a Bakoon 13r that I can get from a UK dealer. Peter
 

pdubya

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Oct 30, 2012
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Valvet is German and they appear to have UK distribution. Joeinid has/had their single-ended E2 — a good bargain and well-spoken of by jackd201 as one of his favorite SS options for AG as well. I tried the A4 because of the balanced inputs, but the E2 may prove a better match for horns.
Parker
 
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awsmone

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Peter--
I'm really crap at audio compare and contrast. The last several weeks I've been using a VIVA 300B integrated. The thing that most stood out for me with the VIVA was that -- even though it's only 8w, and even though the basshorns are self-powered -- there seemed to be more bass than anything else I've used with the Mezzo's. Not mid-bass, but feel-it-in-your-gut bass. I would say overall I prefer the VIVA with the Mezzos, but that preference is not so cut-and-dried that I'm loathe to switch to the FirstWatt SIT3, AGD Audions, or Absolare Integrated. If you can't find a demo set of AGD's, give me a list of some tracks and I'll try to give you some more specific feedback when I swap the VIVA for the AGDs once the summer storm season seems to be settling in.
Purchasing the AGDs was a pragmatic decision as much as anything else. Finding SS amps for the horns is hard enough -- finding suitable SS amps with viable XLR inputs even harder. I wanted to be able to hear the preferred XLR outputs from my Preamp/DAC, wanted something that I could run through a conditioner/surge protector in the summertime (the Absolare hates anything but the wall outlet, and I've lost tubes during a brief outage from a storm 20 miles away), wanted something I could leave on all day (during better weather) whether or not I was home.
I would say, in my system, I prefer the AGD to the FirstWatt and Absolare, but the Absolare loses mainly because I too often hear tube rush, not because it's musically inferior. I also had the class D MBL N51 in the system for a week or so and found it very enjoyable, but the N51 was intended for a different room. I tried the Valvet A4's as well and liked them about as much as the SIT3 (which is to say perfectly adequate but not outstanding in any way to my ears -- I told you I was crap at this) but sent them back because of transformer hum (the dealer said this was easily fixed, but as I didn't find any particular improvement over the FirstWatt didn't see any reason to re-audition). And I've used one of my Luxman m900u's with the Mezzo''s -- I'm sure the amp never left class A. It sounded great to me, but it was intended for a different system.
Again, if you send me a list of some tracks, I'll see if I can give you more specific feedback when I swap out. Hopefully you can find a demo pair -- they are extremely lightweight and ship in a great little flight case.
Parker

can I help....
 

Hear Here

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can I help....

Sorry awsmore but this is just the sort of reviewer that gives his "profession" a bad name. Demo'ing on Youtube is a complete waste of time as far as sound quality goes and the gushing commentary one feels is influenced by whoever is paying for his lunch! I want impartial and considered reviews with bad as well as good points highlighted, preferably with some comparisons with its competitors.

I'm sure it's a great amp but I'll not be influenced by this unconvincing guy or his videos - I do hope it's not you or any other forum member! But that's for posting them anyway. , Peter
 
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awsmone

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Lol no

but it is interesting to see them playing I thought better than just words I wasn’t wanting to reference his “review”

yeah Mikey is an “interesting” guy...I am quite fascinated by these amps myself, but agree you need to hear them yourself for a prolonged period
 

KeithR

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Heard these chip in a fake tube amps on Oceanway Audio horns. Liked the speakers but def had a Class D tinge. I’m not sure of the SET comparisons.

A 47 Labs Gaincard would be another SS amp to try on Mezzos not named Pass,FirstWatt, or Valvet.
 

awsmone

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Isn’t the 47 Labs based on an op amp ?
 

DSkip

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Heard these chip in a fake tube amps on Oceanway Audio horns. Liked the speakers but def had a Class D tinge. I’m not sure of the SET comparisons.

A 47 Labs Gaincard would be another SS amp to try on Mezzos not named Pass,FirstWatt, or Valvet.

I always wonder what the class D crowd hear when they compare the designs so favorably to a SET.
 

cjfrbw

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The Class D I have heard (and once owned) do sound very smooth until they start hitting the upper midrange. After that, as they ascend the frequency range, they become iffy to some ears. Of course, I will allow there are models that I haven't heard that are fine.

At CAS a couple of years ago they had Pure Audio Project Voxative and Whammerdyne 2A3 on one side of the room, and their horn model on the opposite side with a class D amp. At least in that set up, there was no comparison, the Whammerdyne was so much better sounding.
I have no idea which class D amp it was, but I took a picture of it.
IMG_0091.jpg
 

spiritofmusic

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That's an Exogal amp, I believe.
One of THE most appaling demos I've had the misfortune to experience was going from stellar Class AB Bakoon on Cessaro Liszts horns, to Class D Mola Mola. Same room, same gear other than amp swap (some acoustics updates).
The Bakoon was immersive and tuneful. The Mola was shredding and lots of shades...if you like shades of grey. One song was Battleship Grey. The next was Utilitarian Grey.
Now I've also heard the Liszts sound sub par on Class A Tron 211s. But that was more the fact that amp wasn't fast enough. The Class D Molas just stripped all tone and colour out of the music, speed wise it suited the horns.
 
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