The great analog vs. digital debate

[853guy]

Actually they did. In the last years of commercial film, the technology would allow you to shoot film and video (not digital) at the same time. The video was not quality, not high-res, but it gave you the ability to immediately look at a rough of what you had just shot. And that ability is a very powerful tool.

Tim

Yes, that's true, Tim, you're right. You could have a video split but no-one could really tell much from a 4" monitor off a Clamshell (though at that stage I wasn't working with TVCs, only music vids). Now there's a video village on every TVC for the client/agency with a couple of Panasonic BT monitors sat in front of a bunch of fold-out chairs (or sofas, for that matter). And M&M's, of course, but not the green ones.

It's certainly a powerful tool, but like all powerful things, can be abused if in the wrong hands.

Incidentally, the first things I ever shot were on 16mm (with no video split), but there were only two labs able to process it at the time. Less than a year later I shot my first music vid on the RED, but there was only one post facility that knew what to do with the footage (no-one had REDCODE so it was rendered out to a bunch of lossy QT files. It looked rubbish.)

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Yes, that's true, Tim, you're right. You could have a video split but no-one could really tell much from a 4" monitor off a Clamshell (though at that stage I wasn't working with TVCs, only music vids). Now there's a video village on every TVC for the client/agency with a couple of Panasonic BT monitors sat in front of a bunch of fold-out chairs (or sofas, for that matter). And M&M's, of course, but not the green ones.

It's certainly a powerful tool, but like all powerful things, can be abused if in the wrong hands.

Incidentally, the first things I ever shot were on 16mm (with no video split), but there were only two labs able to process it at the time. Less than a year later I shot my first music vid on the RED, but there was only one post facility that knew what to do with the footage (no-one had REDCODE so it was rendered out to a bunch of lossy QT files. It looked rubbish.)

I was involved in lots of 16mm shoots, but I didn't shoot anything. I was the agency writer/producer (one of the guys who wouldn't eat the green M&Ms). It was fun to conceive an idea, write a script, then watch it all come together. To be honest, though, I always liked the edit better than the shoot. From my chair, the shoot was a lot of sitting around watching other people work. I tried to ensure we had what we needed to put together something that worked, but beyond that, I tried to let people do their jobs with minimal interference. It's not hard to find people who are talented and very dedicated in that field, because they're there for the passion, not the money. I didn't get noisy until we got to the editing suite, where a quarter of a second trimmed off of a shot could change the rhythm and flow of the whole spot. My favorite directors and editors were folks who were ok with a process that was more or less talking a spot into materializing, comfortable with making a strong case for their ideas. They were usually right; they usually won. Best to let the passion work.

Damn, you're making me miss work. Can't have that. I have guitars that need playing.

Tim

 

[853guy]

I was involved in lots of 16mm shoots, but I didn't shoot anything. I was the agency writer/producer (one of the guys who wouldn't eat the green M&Ms). It was fun to conceive an idea, write a script, then watch it all come together. To be honest, though, I always liked the edit better than the shoot. From my chair, the shoot was a lot of sitting around watching other people work. I tried to ensure we had what we needed to put together something that worked, but beyond that, I tried to let people do their jobs with minimal interference. It's not hard to find people who are talented and very dedicated in that field, because they're there for the passion, not the money. I didn't get noisy until we got to the editing suite, where a quarter of a second trimmed off of a shot could change the rhythm and flow of the whole spot. My favorite directors and editors were folks who were ok with a process that was more or less talking a spot into materializing, comfortable with making a strong case for their ideas. They were usually right; they usually won. Best to let the passion work.

Damn, you're making me miss work. Can't have that. I have guitars that need playing.

Tim

Hi Tim,

Nice to hear your experiences. Sounds like for the most part they were really great. It’s a fascinating industry for sure, and I agree the best work is usually the result of the best ideas winning out, whether they come from the client/agency side of things or the production side of things. I’ve been on both sides since my short-lived career (actually, fiscally-challenged hobby) as a music producer/engineer came to an inglorious halt, so I appreciate the challenges faced by both. Ultimately, as self-congratulatory as it sometimes is, it’s an industry built on collaboration, and I’m very grateful I’ve been able to work with exceptional people on both a professional and personal level. Interestingly, most of my close friends from the industry are producers or directors, though I’ve also made some very good friends who have since transitioned to features working in post and international sales, which has been great too.

As to missing it? Well, there’s definitely something wonderful involved in seeing your idea on paper become something that speaks to people when realised in another medium. The hours were killer though, so I’ve pulled back a bit and now only freelance with our family still young. I do miss the intensity and camaraderie of the production office/set/edit suite, but not the hours. Nor the refined carbs from the top of the food chain - they were killer as well.

And I know all too well what it’s like to suddenly have the disposable income to buy multiple guitars (the last one I bought was a Japanese replica of Ampeg’s Dan Armstrong lucite - it was good for one thing and one thing only, but it was great at that one thing), and the pain of being so busy with work to never get a chance to play them. They look good in the living room, but that’s kinda not really the point of them, right?

 

[JackD201]

Great to see someone else on the forum in the same industry 853. My first ever real summer job was to PA every summer. Much later on, I was tasked with the basic digit migration blueprint from analog to digital acquisition and post some 15 years ago. The most interesting process was getting the DoPs to get both familiar comfortable with lighting that does differ from film requirements. The easiest was the transition from linear to non-linear/non-destructive editing. The production house's requests for AVPs and ads meant for social media outlets has been increasing year on year too. That's where typically video enabled DSLRs get a lot of work.

To me Men in Black (the last installment) is a great example of having too much resolution. Being able to see all of Tommy Lee Jones' makup and the inability to cover his pores was not cool. There's a mantra in the adult industry that I was told. "No pores in porn". LOL! Seems awefuly apt given the context and that was only at 1080p.

With regards to the audio side of production which I later gravitated too having no film school backround and my probably prenatal obsession with sound, many parallels can be drawn. Non colored vioe or video assist for film and their non-graded video is much like raw mic feeds

 

[853guy]

Great to see someone else on the forum in the same industry 853. My first ever real summer job was to PA every summer. Much later on, I was tasked with the basic digit migration blueprint from analog to digital acquisition and post some 15 years ago. The most interesting process was getting the DoPs to get both familiar comfortable with lighting that does differ from film requirements. The easiest was the transition from linear to non-linear/non-destructive editing. The production house's requests for AVPs and ads meant for social media outlets has been increasing year on year too. That's where typically video enabled DSLRs get a lot of work.

To me Men in Black (the last installment) is a great example of having too much resolution. Being able to see all of Tommy Lee Jones' makup and the inability to cover his pores was not cool. There's a mantra in the adult industry that I was told. "No pores in porn". LOL! Seems awefuly apt given the context and that was only at 1080p.

With regards to the audio side of production which I later gravitated too having no film school backround and my probably prenatal obsession with sound, many parallels can be drawn. Non colored vioe or video assist for film and their non-graded video is much like raw mic feeds

Hi Jack,

The resolution thing is interesting, for sure. Obviously features and TVCs (as well as online content) all differentiate themselves here in terms of the budget and intended audience and what devices it'll be watched on. But by and large I think the skill of the person in whose hands the tool is placed matters as much, if not more, than the tool itself, whether that be film vs digital, or the Alexa vs the RED, or Arri Primes vs Cookes vs C-Primes, etc, etc. Same with audio production. And yes, you get a very, er... specific sort of presentation from a raw mic feed, but again, I've come to value the choices of what the production team do with that feed much more than the feed itself.

I too was a production runner for a while and it brings back many fond memories of maniacally driving 'round the CBD in order to find a park close to Starbucks for the coffee run, only to find out I had gotten a parking ticket for not reading the signs properly, returning back to set with hot chocolate burning through my jeans and being met with disbelief from the ECD who it turned out had not asked for a Cinnamon Dolce Latte without sugar but a Skinny Cinnamon Dolce Latte with sugar. I dropped out of film school after a year and a bit, so you're in good company...

 

[JackD201]

My worst experience as a runner was with a director that insisted on Persian kittens. The pet store owner warned me that they are in no way as cute as their adult counterparts. Reporting back, I was just opening my mouth when the director gave me the sternest look. Whatever man, I figured. The look on his face when I showed up with three of them was classic. LOL.