The REAL WORLD priced high performing product thread.
- Thread starter Andre Marc
- Start date
Let's not beat around the bush..real world IS definable. Harley also thinks that $3000 interconnects are "mid priced".
Real world can EASILY be defined by what the majority can afford comfortably. The standards of the audiophile world are warped. Hence comments
like Harley's about $5000 DACs.
If all the talk about bringing in young people into the hobby is anything but talk, we gotta real ma man.
Because you mentioned they can be used as mono
You said
Some may take that comment endorsing the idea of using two at the price of around $5k, hence why I mentioned the concept of any cheaper products bought and made into mono then compete with the McIntosh that is pretty well priced for what it offers in sound,engineering, and measurements.
Cheers
Orb
Okay Andre, since it's your thread, you get to define it. In the USA what would be the income range and the corresponding disposable income for home entertainment that "a majority can afford comfortably". Do you consider the majority to be 50% +1? Might as well define who you would consider young people if that happens to differ from the UN definition that IIRC covers all people 35yrs and below.
So far, picking the most affordable gear you've listed in this thread you're at ~$3,200. Add a hundred bucks for stands and another $250 (if the SCs cost as much as the ICs) close to $3,600. No source listed, how about a source you have in for review. The Marantz CD/SACD with the iPod input and digital inputs for $4,000. That in your perspective is a Real World system and you are getting close to $8,000 if you throw in the Audience power conditioner.
Does this system fit your parameters?
So far, picking the most affordable gear you've listed in this thread you're at ~$3,200. Add a hundred bucks for stands and another $250 (if the SCs cost as much as the ICs) close to $3,600. No source listed, how about a source you have in for review. The Marantz CD/SACD with the iPod input and digital inputs for $4,000. That in your perspective is a Real World system and you are getting close to $8,000 if you throw in the Audience power conditioner.
Does this system fit your parameters?
Because you mentioned they can be used as mono
You said
Some may take that comment endorsing the idea of using two at the price of around $5k, hence why I mentioned the concept of any cheaper products bought and made into mono then compete with the McIntosh that is pretty well priced for what it offers in sound,engineering, and measurements.
Cheers
Orb
Understood. Using them as monos kind of destroys the value proposition I guess. His more expensive amps are mono blocks so maybe
that is why he felt compelled to offer this feature.
I think someone needs to champion their Azur 851 models as they are real world price with performance possibly better than the Carver and W4S, that means reviewers who can build the narrative of great sound at competitve prices such as yourself.
The narrative from publications for said products is strong here in the UK (appreciated they are a UK company) but also in some other countries.
Cheers
Orb
Woah..too many separate issues here..
First some clarifications...The $4000 Marantz SACD player/DAC is NOT a value or "real world" product. It is high end..no ifs and or buts about it.
That is under review and has nothing to do with a a "value" system. These are products that
I had scheduled for review and they all arrive within a few days.
Secondly. I would agree that "young" would be 35 or less. Give or take.
Lastly, just MY take..this is not some gospel handed down from a supreme being...is that some
one who truly loves music, should have no problem with the concept of spending $3500-$5000 on a COMPLETE
home playback system..that includes source to cables.
Look at it this way. I see shoppers at Wal Mart and Target buying $3000 HDTVs at the drop of a hat..or
$2500 Mac Book Pros, or even $4000 on golf clubs.
The products I mentioned in this thread do not have to be purchased together. I am not cobbling
together some sort of virtual system.
You want a perfectly good system for around $3500?
How about:
Rogue Cronus integrated amp:$1500
Paradigm S1 speakers $800
Marantz 8004 SACD player/DAC: $100
$200 left over for ICs and speaker cable (tons of choices here)
I could list a dozen more combos..some with active speakers...etc.
BTW, I appreciate being challenged on this subject..it's good!
Isn't this compounded by whatever replaced the Marantz Pearl at slightly cheaper prices; sad that the Pearl Lite integrated and SACD seems to be only available in the UK and not North America and there is currently a price jump with the SA and PM-11S3.
I guess while still available would be SA and PM-15S2B, closer to the Carver example, but the Pearl Lite has big interest-buying here in the UK as it is so well priced (cheaper than the 15S2B price) so strange Marantz North America has not taken it on.
Cheers
Orb
Well at those prices I doubt anyone can complain, made in same country is becoming more restricted to much more expensive audio IMO (albeit for a rare minority).
If people want cheaper audio, then they need to realise it is going to be built somewhere very cheap; sort of the shock some have with music shops are closing but everyone including them is buying their music from Amazon and other download online retailers.
That said high end manufacturers at the higher prices attempts to retain in-country, so jobs still being maintained.
Cheers
Orb
Hello, Andre. Bob originally offered that feature due to the fact that the owners/builders of the first 100 pre-production units all had different amounts of amplifiers purchased and many expressed interest in getting two amps and making them mono. Many others who only wanted one of them obviously had no need for just one mono amplifier. Hence the choice.
It is a very simple mod to make one into the other and vice-versa. So, if the real world pricing starts out with only one amplifier, they always have the choice to add another amp later and make both of them mono.
Tom
Yes the rare manufacturers for now.
But it would be interesting to see how the Cambridge Audio Azur 851 compares in sound to their comparative priced gear.
That CA model has had a serious amount of plaudits here in Europe and will be a challenger to many manufacturers at that price range, after all the objective is to get the best sound for the bucks.
Cheers
Orb
Not as rare as you think.
Cambridge Audio has been pushing the higher end manufacturers for years now...especially in digital.
Their streamers, DACs, and disc players have been amazingly feature rich and inexpensive.
Yeah agree they are the ones who I feel push Musical Fidelity to improve their own real world digital products and they were pretty well recognised for doing a good job.
Even more pressure has been brought by the 851 digital product, and designed to work very well with the 851 amp.
That said the 851 digital has a serious amount of functionality and performance for its price.
Cheers
Orb
Great, I was hoping you wouldn't take it the wrong way
Still, the way I see it is that home audio would be on top of and not in lieu of the computers and the flatscreens, etc. It's a disposable income issue where the total sum is prioritized by the consumer accordingly. Question is, what is that sum? You defined the parameters, I just asked for more specifics. Like everybody else I'm curious to see where you as the OP draws the line because I sure as hell can't. As you say, the value system is warped and I personally think that I would fall squarely in the EXTREMELY warped section in the eyes of someone who hasn't himself gone nuts for any hobby.
It doesn't mean however I've lost touch with reality or more precisely the need to provide the proper utility. In another thread, I was giddy over a successful run at Best Buy under severe budget constraints dictated by my good ol' Dad, where decent (not great but decent) sound was had from a pair of Klipsch's and a Denon, a panasonic BD and a Panasonic Plasma for a little over 2 grand delivered. Now it wasn't terribly well balanced but out of everything there, it had the least amount of missing notes and the best intelligibility of lyrics. Something to consider when shopping for a 78 year old! UTILITY!
Ah the rambling. I guess what I'm trying to say about the younger generation is that it isn't just price. It may not even be price. If you want to entice, it ain't price because price is a barrier. Price is only a consideration when the sense of need has already been established. The only way to create that sense of need is through exposure. THEN have products they can afford comfortably.
I don't buy the argument that if you show a kid a megabuck system that they will be put off. It never put off my nephews and nieces. Two are of legal age and love hanging out and they bring their own tunes. My kids love music just as much. My five year old boy can sit with me for two hours just listening to classical music then hops on up to his room and plays his Nano on an iHome while playing with his toys. Cute guy he could load a CD and adjust the volume at the age of two. What would put them off is if you said they HAD to spend megabucks. The only lecture they ever got from me was a very stern warning to watch their headphone levels.
1:54AM sorry for the rant.
Great, I was hoping you wouldn't take it the wrong way
Still, the way I see it is that home audio would be on top of and not in lieu of the computers and the flatscreens, etc. It's a disposable income issue where the total sum is prioritized by the consumer accordingly. Question is, what is that sum? You defined the parameters, I just asked for more specifics. Like everybody else I'm curious to see where you as the OP draws the line because I sure as hell can't. As you say, the value system is warped and I personally think that I would fall squarely in the EXTREMELY warped section in the eyes of someone who hasn't himself gone nuts for any hobby.
It doesn't mean however I've lost touch with reality or more precisely the need to provide the proper utility. In another thread, I was giddy over a successful run at Best Buy under severe budget constraints dictated by my good ol' Dad, where decent (not great but decent) sound was had from a pair of Klipsch's and a Denon, a panasonic BD and a Panasonic Plasma for a little over 2 grand delivered. Now it wasn't terribly well balanced but out of everything there, it had the least amount of missing notes and the best intelligibility of lyrics. Something to consider when shopping for a 78 year old! UTILITY!
Ah the rambling. I guess what I'm trying to say about the younger generation is that it isn't just price. It may not even be price. If you want to entice, it ain't price because price is a barrier. Price is only a consideration when the sense of need has already been established. The only way to create that sense of need is through exposure. THEN have products they can afford comfortably.
I don't buy the argument that if you show a kid a megabuck system that they will be put off. It never put off my nephews and nieces. Two are of legal age and love hanging out and they bring their own tunes. My kids love music just as much. My five year old boy can sit with me for two hours just listening to classical music then hops on up to his room and plays his Nano on an iHome while playing with his toys. Cute guy he could load a CD and adjust the volume at the age of two. What would put them off is if you said they HAD to spend megabucks. The only lecture they ever got from me was a very stern warning to watch their headphone levels.
1:54AM sorry for the rant.
No, worries, I totally understand what you are saying.
BTW, I agree, price is hardly the only factor in attracting young people to the hobby.
There has to be a desire for quality..not just convenience.
Check out this conversation between Uli Jon Roth and Bill Corgan...scroll to around 4 minutes-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9IX4BOE7ag
