The State of High End Audio

[Blizzard]

IMO, the black version of the Nimbus is better but there's plenty of personal preference involved. The crossover requirements are different with Accuton requiring a steeper slope to avoid the nasty breakup peaks while the Audiotechnology driver can use a shallower slope and it blends perfectly where the Accuton doesn't quite blend as smoothly. I know Ryan at Vapor would also agree, unless he's figured out how to get the Accutons to behave a bit better. They may have done so after developing the Perfect Storm, the Accutons used on the PS did sound quite a bit better than I remember in the Joule or Nimbus, so that may have trickled down... Also, many mfg'ers are figuring out the Accuton drivers are best modified with some damping material on the backside of the cones, so it's possible Vapor has also made some progress in that area.

If you go with Vapor you can customize quite a bit, I might go with the Joule's mid/tweeter arrangement on the Nimbus instead. But be prepared to wait...

For me it would come down to Vapor, JBL or TAD... and with TAD being so expensive, IDK... the CR-1s mid/tweeter is amazing but the Vapor and JBL have really nice 15" woofers. The TAD Ref-1 has plenty of woofer but it's double the price of the CR-1.

That's the beauty of using the Accuton dome mid with the midwoofer. You can cross it over lower, and have a seamless blend into the midrange. Let alone one of the most holographic midranges possible. Accuton driver's are well suited for the very finest active designs. Audio technology drivers are excellent for passive 2, 2.5 ways.

 

[Geardaddy]

Will begin auditioning a few systems and speakers. For now the candidates are many and at all kind of prices ..

The top contenders are very, very different speakers:

Magico S7
Magnepan 3.7
Magnepan 20.7
Vivid G2 or G3
JBL 4357
Vapor Audio Nimbus White (Very Curious about this one, the Buzz on Vapor Audio is strong )

Used Q3 or Q5 ( a beast to drive though) or a used TAD CR1
Will keep the headphones.

With what associated equipment? I friend demoed and bought the new Spatial speaker from Clayton Shaw if you like dipoles....

 

[Blizzard]

Will begin auditioning a few systems and speakers. For now the candidates are many and at all kind of prices ..

The top contenders are very, very different speakers:

Magico S7
Magnepan 3.7
Magnepan 20.7
Vivid G2 or G3
JBL 4357
Vapor Audio Nimbus White (Very Curious about this one, the Buzz on Vapor Audio is strong )

Used Q3 or Q5 ( a beast to drive though) or a used TAD CR1
Will keep the headphones.

Some of the kits on here will smoke the best on that list for approx 1/4- 1/3rd the price as the above mentioned. Just need to find a competent cabinet shop to build the cabinets. Many of them in the U.S who make beautiful cabinets:

http://www.jantzen-audio.com/complete-kits-for-diy-speaker-projects/

 

[Folsom]

When did this become the DIY section?

Some of us take great pleasure in paying as much as we possibly can to; 1. not be you 2. avoid a long wait/headache of custom/DIY and 3. have customer support.

 

[FrantzM]

Blizz

I just don't know... Questions sked with the least amount of sacarsm: Have you heard any of those Kits in some comparison to any speakers on my list? A data point though I didn;t know such companies existed.

I am not the "tweaky" type though. I would take an inordinate amount of time to select and stick with whatever I get...

Leaning heavily toward Burmester amplification (hint: 911 already acquired)

It is however a moving target. I love the flexibility of the Devialet but would prefer more choice in DACs... I like what I have read and the price of the Merging Technologies Hapi (essentially an Horus with less DAC modules). The system will have subs so the low reach of the speakers is almost secondary and if iwere to go Maggies I would cross very high, circa 120 Hz as to limit the excursion of the bass panels... I do however hace a fondness for the Dynamic jump and clarity of high efficiency designs so I am looking forward to audition the JBL .. As for the Giyas.. From people here and audiophile freinds whose ears I believe they seem to be the very real deal and among the best speakers around at any price. The Magicos Q3 and Q5 are personal favorite. I rate the Q5 as among the best speakers I have heard at any price when driven by extremely powerful amplifiers. The S7 from many accounts seem to be better than those . If that is the case they are speakers that vie to the top of the chain, especially when relieved of the task of reproducing deep bass as it would be in my case. As for cables I am keeping an open mind but with closed eyes (pin intended) I and many others have not been able to identify which cable is which when not in the know. I am willing to be proven of the contrary ... Let it be said that I will use competent electrically correct wires... likely no preamp again I don't know yet.. It is a year or so out so I have time.

 

[Blizzard]

When did this become the DIY section?

Some of us take great pleasure in paying as much as we possibly can to; 1. not be you 2. avoid a long wait/headache of custom/DIY and 3. have customer support.

why do you build your own amps then?

 

[Blizzard]

Blizz

I just don't know... Questions sked with the least amount of sacarsm: Have you heard any of those Kits in some comparison to any speakers on my list? A data point though I didn;t know such companies existed.

I am not the "tweaky" type though. I would take an inordinate amount of time to select and stick with whatever I get...

Leaning heavily toward Burmester amplification (hint: 911 already acquired)

It is however a moving target. I love the flexibility of the Devialet but would prefer more choice in DACs... I like what I have read and the price of the Merging Technologies Hapi (essentially an Horus with less DAC modules). The system will have subs so the low reach of the speakers is almost secondary and if iwere to go Maggies I would cross very high, circa 120 Hz as to limit the excursion of the bass panels... I do however hace a fondness for the Dynamic jump and clarity of high efficiency designs so I am looking forward to audition the JBL .. As for the Giyas.. From people here and audiophile freinds whose ears I believe they seem to be the very real deal and among the best speakers around at any price. The Magicos Q3 and Q5 are personal favorite. I rate the Q5 as among the best speakers I have heard at any price when driven by extremely powerful amplifiers. The S7 from many accounts seem to be better than those . If that is the case they are speakers that vie to the top of the chain, especially when relieved of the task of reproducing deep bass as it would be in my case. As for cables I am keeping an open mind but with closed eyes (pin intended) I and many others have not been able to identify which cable is which when not in the know. I am willing to be proven of the contrary ... Let it be said that I will use competent electrically correct wires... likely no preamp again I don't know yet.. It is a year or so out so I have time.

No I haven't heard all of those kits, but I've been following that guy's work for about 15 years. He knows what he's doing and uses all the best drivers and parts around. He's very well known in Europe, and does lots of design work for OEM's. I haven't heard any customer feedback from anyone who went with one of his kits that wasn't thrilled.

Kits have been around forever. It's by far the best way to buy a speaker. But you do have to have a bit of knowledge to realize what your getting.

Anyways I haven't bought a commercial speaker since I was 14. But I've owned probably 60 pairs. So I guess I'm a poor guy to ask about getting the best speakers for your money.

 

[Folsom]

why do you build your own amps then?

That's business. And it's selective. I didn't build my cd player because I have no intention of making a cd player as a product. You don't ask Magico why they don't build their own DAC's do you?

I'm more than happy to buy an assortment of finished products. I'd buy from someone else for something I do make, if it would help me say work on another project that my own would not.

 

[Geardaddy]

Blizz

I just don't know... Questions sked with the least amount of sacarsm: Have you heard any of those Kits in some comparison to any speakers on my list? A data point though I didn;t know such companies existed.

I am not the "tweaky" type though. I would take an inordinate amount of time to select and stick with whatever I get...

Leaning heavily toward Burmester amplification (hint: 911 already acquired)

It is however a moving target. I love the flexibility of the Devialet but would prefer more choice in DACs... I like what I have read and the price of the Merging Technologies Hapi (essentially an Horus with less DAC modules). The system will have subs so the low reach of the speakers is almost secondary and if iwere to go Maggies I would cross very high, circa 120 Hz as to limit the excursion of the bass panels... I do however hace a fondness for the Dynamic jump and clarity of high efficiency designs so I am looking forward to audition the JBL .. As for the Giyas.. From people here and audiophile freinds whose ears I believe they seem to be the very real deal and among the best speakers around at any price. The Magicos Q3 and Q5 are personal favorite. I rate the Q5 as among the best speakers I have heard at any price when driven by extremely powerful amplifiers. The S7 from many accounts seem to be better than those . If that is the case they are speakers that vie to the top of the chain, especially when relieved of the task of reproducing deep bass as it would be in my case. As for cables I am keeping an open mind but with closed eyes (pin intended) I and many others have not been able to identify which cable is which when not in the know. I am willing to be proven of the contrary ... Let it be said that I will use competent electrically correct wires... likely no preamp again I don't know yet.. It is a year or so out so I have time.

Magicos are bitchy so you have to find the right amps and associated stuff upstream. I have heard them sound good and I have heard them sound really bad. I heard the S5s sound good fronted by a Brinkman table, exemplar pre-amp and phono and Plinius. How much do you want to spend? Where do u live?

 

[Blizzard]

Magicos are bitchy so you have to find the right amps and associated stuff upstream. I have heard them sound good and I have heard them sound really bad. Not a fan of Accutons....to my ears they sound a lot like their name....

Which speakers have you heard Accuton's in? I know they don't sound that great running full range out of a cabinet

 

[bonzo75]

Will begin auditioning a few systems and speakers. For now the candidates are many and at all kind of prices ..

The top contenders are very, very different speakers:

Magico S7
Magnepan 3.7
Magnepan 20.7
Vivid G2 or G3
JBL 4357
Vapor Audio Nimbus White (Very Curious about this one, the Buzz on Vapor Audio is strong )

Used Q3 or Q5 ( a beast to drive though) or a used TAD CR1
Will keep the headphones.

If you are looking at Maggie why not at analysis audio. Definitely better than Maggie lower models though haven't heard 20.7 and easier to drive. There is one for sale at just over 10k USD in San Jose, the guy is running with VTL high powered amps

 

[Rodney Gold]

I have heard the maggies you have posted (many other models too ..) and the G2 and G3 , I love the sound of the maggies .. but IMHO the maggies and the G3 need subs.. the G2 doesnt unless you want subs for node busting
Never heard Magico..I dont think they available here in sunny South Africa.. also never heard the JBL's
In my biased opinion as a vivid owner , the G2 would be the best overall
the G3's are marvellous.. a little bass limited but dont have the scale and grandeur type sound the G2/1's have
YMMV

 

[bonzo75]

I like the G2 and G3 and would choose it over the Wilsons upto Alexia, or over a Focal, and other cones like Vandy or Avalon (though I would choose Alexandria/Trios over a G1 (I have heard G4 with Spectrals and MBL amps, and G1s with Ypsilon hybrids and Luxman M800 bridged amps. Luxman was the best to my ears, but needs to be bridged, so becomes expensive as you need two. Additionally I heard G2 with extremely expensive CH Precision, but that was at a show, and it was still good)).

However, the choice between Vivid on one hand and Maggie/Apogee/Analysis/Logan on the other is totally different. If someone likes a panel, tough to go back to a non-panel.

 

[bonzo75]

I haven't heard that particular JBL model but have heard 66000 a couple of times, have heard the newer K2 at shows, and heard the 4520, which I think is a Pro speaker. Not a fan of any of those. I have heard a horn made from JBL drivers which was outstanding though. Not a fan of Magicos either. Have heard S3, S5, Q5 in private set ups and Q3 at shows. A dealer in Poland is replacing his G1s with the new Magicos. Elberoth's Magicos sound nice with the older MBL amps, and he has tried a few like Vitus. Magico Q3 with expensive constellation, transparent opus, and Metronome CD player at a show sounded quite good.

 

[Blizzard]

Blizz

I just don't know... Questions sked with the least amount of sacarsm: Have you heard any of those Kits in some comparison to any speakers on my list? A data point though I didn;t know such companies existed.

I am not the "tweaky" type though. I would take an inordinate amount of time to select and stick with whatever I get...

Leaning heavily toward Burmester amplification (hint: 911 already acquired)

It is however a moving target. I love the flexibility of the Devialet but would prefer more choice in DACs... I like what I have read and the price of the Merging Technologies Hapi (essentially an Horus with less DAC modules). The system will have subs so the low reach of the speakers is almost secondary and if iwere to go Maggies I would cross very high, circa 120 Hz as to limit the excursion of the bass panels... I do however hace a fondness for the Dynamic jump and clarity of high efficiency designs so I am looking forward to audition the JBL .. As for the Giyas.. From people here and audiophile freinds whose ears I believe they seem to be the very real deal and among the best speakers around at any price. The Magicos Q3 and Q5 are personal favorite. I rate the Q5 as among the best speakers I have heard at any price when driven by extremely powerful amplifiers. The S7 from many accounts seem to be better than those . If that is the case they are speakers that vie to the top of the chain, especially when relieved of the task of reproducing deep bass as it would be in my case. As for cables I am keeping an open mind but with closed eyes (pin intended) I and many others have not been able to identify which cable is which when not in the know. I am willing to be proven of the contrary ... Let it be said that I will use competent electrically correct wires... likely no preamp again I don't know yet.. It is a year or so out so I have time.

Here we have a guy who built one of Troel's kit's. And this guy knows audio. Did you see his main system with the Wilsons?

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19581-Troels-Gravesen-s-Illuminator-Monitor

His illuminator 5 speaker would hold it's own with $30000-$50000 speakers all day long. Find a master speaker cabinet builder, ( I know a few in the U.S) forward him the plans, and there you go. He can use all the finest binding posts, exotic hardwoods, whatever you want. It's only 3300 euros for all of the parts! Budget say $3000-$4000 for cabinets and assembly and you have a speaker that will hold it's own with $30000-$50000 speaker all day for under $10000 no B.S.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illuminator-5.htm