The World Loses An Icon
- Thread starter Steve williams
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Yes, read Long Walk to Freedom.
Mosin it is possible for terrorists to win the Nobel peace prize. Yasser Arafat won it in 1994. Also possible for Communists to win the peace prize. Mikhail Gorbachev won it in 1990
I know you said "true leader", but I thought this would be interesting to note. I agree with you, Mandela's past as a terrorist seems to have been whitewashed from history.
I suppose it means that you don't have to be a good guy to bring about positive change. Apartheid is gone, and that is a good thing, but I have issues with crediting the wrong ideologies for it.Yes, read Long Walk to Freedom.
Mosin it is possible for terrorists to win the Nobel peace prize. Yasser Arafat won it in 1994. Also possible for Communists to win the peace prize. Mikhail Gorbachev won it in 1990
As they say, one man's hero is another man's terrorist. If you were to ask many "oaks" down there ( oaks is african for guys)...you would get a VERY mixed opinion....many of these "oaks" remember the flaming tire necklace!
OTOH, one cannot take away from Mandela his ideology (in his later years) and how he could have instigated a 'blood bath' once apartheid fell....instead he peacefully pushed the country forward ( IMHO) and he was a very good statesman.
I do think that he shouldn't have promised the poor black majority a house for all....something that he couldn't possibly have a hope of delivering...BUT it was a great intent. Perhaps, that is enough??
OTOH, one cannot take away from Mandela his ideology (in his later years) and how he could have instigated a 'blood bath' once apartheid fell....instead he peacefully pushed the country forward ( IMHO) and he was a very good statesman.
I do think that he shouldn't have promised the poor black majority a house for all....something that he couldn't possibly have a hope of delivering...BUT it was a great intent. Perhaps, that is enough??
The "flaming tire necklace" is still commonplace, and whether the country has moved forward is still speculative. After all, there are more carjackings in Johannesburg every week than in all the rest of the world combined. Unfortunately, we live in a very imperfect world that is constantly colored by those who have various agendas.
It's another symptom of white liberals apologizing for America's long past misdeads...sort of a faux outrage that has infected politics since Clinton.
I don't think anyone who has ever been to S.A in the years since the fall of apartheid could possibly say that the country has NOT moved forward. Everything else you say I would agree with.
Some of those commentaries are at least sad , beneath what what I have come to expect from the WBF. A person who fought for freedome something inthe USA we hold so dear suffered so many years of being deprived from his freedom and yet came out wiser, grander and without bitterness; Lead a country in a peaceful transition from an inhumane and ugly form of social policy to arguably one of the great nations on this earth.
Yet none of that seems not to be the definition of an icon of an hero of a person to aspire to for some ..
I am sure this is not a reflection of the WBF at large.
Yes we lost an icon, A giant. Derogation toward him won't diminish his magnitude and magnificence .. It exposes however the mind of more than one... much smaller individuals
Rest in peace Nelson, The World lost a great man ... Your legacy will endure ... You will never be forgotten
Yet none of that seems not to be the definition of an icon of an hero of a person to aspire to for some ..
I am sure this is not a reflection of the WBF at large.
Yes we lost an icon, A giant. Derogation toward him won't diminish his magnitude and magnificence .. It exposes however the mind of more than one... much smaller individuals
Rest in peace Nelson, The World lost a great man ... Your legacy will endure ... You will never be forgotten
I think there needs to be some balance/context though Frantz,
to my mind he is no Martin Luther King.
And while it may be controversial, South Africa would not be where it is today without both Mandella and F.W.de Klerk.
Interestingly both could be deemed to have strong opposite views in their younger political days, but in the end shared a similar peaceful view of a new South Africa that together they managed to bring about.
Sadly though neither president managed to stem the high level of corruption from their party-government peers.
Agree, sad day to lose one of the founders of a better South Africa.
Cheers
Orb
to my mind he is no Martin Luther King.
And while it may be controversial, South Africa would not be where it is today without both Mandella and F.W.de Klerk.
Interestingly both could be deemed to have strong opposite views in their younger political days, but in the end shared a similar peaceful view of a new South Africa that together they managed to bring about.
Sadly though neither president managed to stem the high level of corruption from their party-government peers.
Agree, sad day to lose one of the founders of a better South Africa.
Cheers
Orb
Orb
Interesting that we share this opinion about the wisdonm of F.W. De Klerk. You won't find me diminishing de Klerk legacy but to paint Mandela is not balance. It raise serious questions about some here. I can't take this lightly
All great men have flaws and most didn't follow a linear path. It doesn't take anything from their greatness... You name any Giant in History and their flaws were as great as their qualities. it doesn't diminish their legacy. Far from it.
I can quietly advance that few of those Giants were saints... Mohandas Gandhi was one of the very few ... IMO.
Oh I agree,
but the press are making him much more than both Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
To my mind it is that level of "hype" that then makes some critical/skeptical, which is a shame because it can be deemed he was one of the great men but not the greatest.
Cheers
Orb
but the press are making him much more than both Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
To my mind it is that level of "hype" that then makes some critical/skeptical, which is a shame because it can be deemed he was one of the great men but not the greatest.
Cheers
Orb
Some other notorious terrorists; the American Patriots, the Anti-Nazi underground movement in occupied territories, and the militant founders of Israel. Bottom line; one man's terrorist is another man's hero.
I don't typically get personal on this forum, but if you are implying Mandela was not "one of the good guy's" but a bad guy that happened to be in the right place at the right time and brought about positive change, you win the prize for most moronic comment on WBF year to date. I hope I'm wrong.
Spot on. Whitey should learn to take some conservative pride in genocide and slavery and stop apologizing. After all, blacks have been able to vote freely for a few decades by now, so why can't we just move on.
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