The World Loses An Icon

I suppose it means that you don't have to be a good guy to bring about positive change. Apartheid is gone, and that is a good thing, but I have issues with crediting the wrong ideologies for it.

He was no less a good guy than George Washington, who also took up armed struggle against tyranny (which included instances of tar-and-feathering (as opposed to the flaming necklace) and other unsanctioned violent attacks on authority, which is in the nature of armed resistance) and eventually led a new nation that rose out of it. Unlike Washington, however, Mandela eventually sought to forgive and work closely with those who had oppressed him to ultimately lead a peaceful transition to a one-person, one-vote democracy. Your distaste for his embrace of Communism notwithstanding (which only came after "champions for Democracy" such as the U.S. and the U.K. refused to support the majority of South Africans' fight for Democracy against the most anti-democratic regime of the 20th Century), I'm sure he found accepting support from the Soviet bloc more palatable than going along with Apartheid, an utterly indefensible system of government (based in part on the so-called religious concept of Predestination) more vile than anything dreamt up in the halls of the Kremlin. When forced to choose between the two, the choice is plainly obvious.

Show me a perfect man and I'll show you a fantasy. If your standards for acknowledging heroism require that the person not have committed any transgressions along the way, then no one who has ever lived has yet to meet those standards. Madiba came closer than any of his contemporaries among world leaders. I am thankful for the work he did while he was with us.
 
Your distaste for his embrace of Communism notwithstanding (which only came after "champions for Democracy" such as the U.S. and the U.K. refused to support the majority of South Africans' fight for Democracy), I'm sure he found accepting support from the Soviet bloc more palatable than going along with Apartheid, an utterly indefensible system of government (based in part on the so-called religious concept of Predestination) more vile than anything dreamt up in the halls of the Kremlin. When forced to choose between the two, the choice is plainly obvious.

Even Castro only reached out to the Soviets after the USA refused to recognize legitimacy of the regime and made it its objective to detroy him. In those days "leftists sympathies" and failure of democratically elected leaders of former colonies to fall in line with US strategic objectives could easily get you assassinated by fascists reactionaries through CIA sponsored plots. Patrice Lumumba - Congo, Allende - Chile, and Mosaddegh - Iran. come to mind.
 
Spot on. Whitey should learn to take some conservative pride in genocide and slavery and stop apologizing. After all, blacks have been able to vote freely for a few decades by now, so why can't we just move on.

from what I recall, Southern Democrats were opposed to abolishing slavery. Once blacks got the right to vote, the democrats realized there was a huge demographic that they could pander too, even to this day. 95% of African Americans vote democrat. They don't even think about it. It is engrained from birth. Why do you think democrats want amnesty for illegals ? More votes (15 Million+)...that is the real political calculus.
 
from what I recall, Southern Democrats were opposed to abolishing slavery. Once blacks got the right to vote, the democrats realized there was a huge demographic that they could pander too, even to this day. 95% of African Americans vote democrat. They don't even think about it. It is engrained from birth. Why do you think democrats want amnesty for illegals ? More votes (15 Million+)...that is the real political calculus.

Amen...history has been successfully rewritten by the progressive movement..
 
from what I recall, Southern Democrats were opposed to abolishing slavery.

I'm not to hung up on the Republican / Democrat label. Obviously the Southern Democrats du jour were not part of the "white liberals" cohort you alluded to.

Once blacks got the right to vote, the democrats realized there was a huge demographic that they could pander too, even to this day. 95% of African Americans vote democrat. They don't even think about it. It is engrained from birth. Why do you think democrats want amnesty for illegals ? More votes (15 Million+)...that is the real political calculus.

Big yawn. Pandering to voting constituencies is called democratic politics. So the GOP panders to assorted angry white man, racists, homophobic evangelicals, and disgruntled 1%'ers. It just turns out there aren't enough of them to win elections. Enter a guy like Christie to change course and try something new. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.
 
Amen...history has been successfully rewritten by the progressive movement..

You are confusing "progressive movement" with political party affiliation. If Southern democrats were in favor of maintaining the status quo (i.e. slavery) in the 1900s they were by definition the de facto "conservatives" at the time (to conserve is to maintain the status quo). If Republicans were in favor of changing it, they were by definition the "progressives".

During the civil rights movement party affiliations of conservatives and progressives had simply flipped; the conservatives were still on the wrong side of history and the progressives on right side (as always). So no need for progressives to rewrite any history. They have been and always will be on the right side of history.
 
You are confusing "progressive movement" with political party affiliation. If Southern democrats were in favor of maintaining the status quo (i.e. slavery) in the 1900s they were by definition the de facto "conservatives" at the time (to conserve is to maintain the status quo). If Republicans were in favor of changing it, they were by definition the "progressives".

During the civil rights movement party affiliations of conservatives and progressives had simply flipped; the conservatives were still on the wrong side of history and the progressives on right side (as always). So no need for progressives to rewrite any history. They have been and always will be on the right side of history.

You're entitled to your opinion edorr however incorrect it may be. Being a conservative on the WBF reminds me of the famous George Gobel line: "did you ever get the feeling that the world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes?"
 
from what I recall, Southern Democrats were opposed to abolishing slavery. Once blacks got the right to vote, the democrats realized there was a huge demographic that they could pander too, even to this day. 95% of African Americans vote democrat. They don't even think about it. It is engrained from birth. Why do you think democrats want amnesty for illegals ? More votes (15 Million+)...that is the real political calculus.

It is quite obvious that you have no idea how insulting that is, and apparently neither do some candidates for public office. The very notion that some people running for office subscribe to that idea is reason enough to not vote for them.
 
It is quite obvious that you have no idea how insulting that is, and apparently neither do some candidates for public office. The very notion that some people running for office subscribe to that idea is reason enough to not vote for them.

I guess some folks can find the truth insulting. Get over it..
 
You're entitled to your opinion edorr however incorrect it may be. Being a conservative on the WBF reminds me of the famous George Gobel line: "did you ever get the feeling that the world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes?"

Playing the conservative victim card are we?
 
I guess some folks can find the truth insulting. Get over it..

Nothing to get over. If a candidate can't be bothered to find out why a person might not vote for him and goes as far as to invent his own reasons why, the answer is self-evident. Just a form of delusion, really.
 
Amen...history has been successfully rewritten by the progressive movement..

Amen ? I am trying to come up with one economy that benefits from progressive rule. That style of government seems to be better at bankrupting countries that subscribe to that malignant ideology. Look how much debt the Progressive in Chief Obama has racked up in 5 years...Oh well, different strokes for different folks.
 
Amen ? I am trying to come up with one economy that benefits from progressive rule. That style of government seems to be better at bankrupting countries that subscribe to that malignant ideology. Look how much debt the Progressive in Chief Obama has racked up in 5 years...Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

Yes, I also wonder why anyone would say "amen" to that.
 
Amen ? I am trying to come up with one economy that benefits from progressive rule. That style of government seems to be better at bankrupting countries that subscribe to that malignant ideology. Look how much debt the Progressive in Chief Obama has racked up in 5 years...Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

You missed my point entirely. The "amen" was in response to your post...my gawd why do I even bother posting on this site?
 
It is quite obvious that you have no idea how insulting that is

Agreed, basically he's calling a specific demographic "stupid", or at the very least, they're incapable of thinking for themselves.

I guess some folks can find the truth insulting. Get over it..

Very dismissive statement ... using the word "truth" as some form of political trump card ... well, it's like using specs to define sound.

tb1
 
Agreed, basically he's calling a specific demographic "stupid", or at the very least, they're incapable of thinking for themselves.



Very dismissive statement ... using the word "truth" as some form of political trump card ... well, it's like using specs to define sound.

tb1

OK guys this will be it for me. Arguing with a progressive is like repeatedly smashing your thumb with a hammer. If you are a fan of big government with the accoutrements of out of control spending and invasive control of our lives; if you think that free enterprise and capitalism are evil..then knock yourselves out. It's a free country..so far. As they say, the proof is in the pudding so in three years let's see how far we have come. I'm betting not very...adios friends...best make that amigos.
 
OK guys this will be it for me. Arguing with a progressive is like repeatedly smashing your thumb with a hammer. If you are a fan of big government with the accoutrements of out of control spending and invasive control of our lives; if you think that free enterprise and capitalism are evil..then knock yourselves out. It's a free country..so far. As they say, the proof is in the pudding so in three years let's see how far we have come. I'm betting not very...adios friends...best make that amigos.

+1 !!! Over and out for me too.
 

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