Toppings dacs
- Thread starter Alrainbow
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TOPPING D900 Discrete DAC
The Topping D900 pushes the boundaries of audio fidelity with an exclusive 32-phase DSM (Discrete Sigma Modulation) architecture.
www.audiophonics.fr
What I currently use is the toppings dx9 anniversary edition.
I don’t use it as a preamp , but do use its volume control into my preamp.
my put in volume control into a preamp has many virtues.
for one most dacs I feel are too high in output overall.
This affects the sound quality, by lowering the output voltage allows me to get a better sound quality.
More weight , less hardness and when this gets done it’s more musical.
even if I adjust the preamps Input gain this alone is not enough.
I’ve owned many Lampi dacs wonderful magic sounding. but even with them a volume pot is needed.
if no volume then I use the volume control in the player
but not all payers sound good when using them.
roon to me is horrible , river is good so is hq player.
one thing many dacs do is ring , by lowering the output into the dac this helps
lowering into the preamp does not stop ringing but does give a more accurate tone and decay.
now if you spend much more money these effects are less noticeable
newer Lampi or Msb or wadax is more easy the match to get good tonal performance.
The toppings d90se is more thin then the dx9 but also can get better if volume controls are used
I also use a deqx as dac it’s also a preamp too , but even though its interface shows no digital clipping on input the sound to me is clipping. Using a lower digital input volume control from the player really helps to get a good sound.
I don’t use it as a preamp , but do use its volume control into my preamp.
my put in volume control into a preamp has many virtues.
for one most dacs I feel are too high in output overall.
This affects the sound quality, by lowering the output voltage allows me to get a better sound quality.
More weight , less hardness and when this gets done it’s more musical.
even if I adjust the preamps Input gain this alone is not enough.
I’ve owned many Lampi dacs wonderful magic sounding. but even with them a volume pot is needed.
if no volume then I use the volume control in the player
but not all payers sound good when using them.
roon to me is horrible , river is good so is hq player.
one thing many dacs do is ring , by lowering the output into the dac this helps
lowering into the preamp does not stop ringing but does give a more accurate tone and decay.
now if you spend much more money these effects are less noticeable
newer Lampi or Msb or wadax is more easy the match to get good tonal performance.
The toppings d90se is more thin then the dx9 but also can get better if volume controls are used
I also use a deqx as dac it’s also a preamp too , but even though its interface shows no digital clipping on input the sound to me is clipping. Using a lower digital input volume control from the player really helps to get a good sound.
I think the moment we see numbers below full gain we think we are loosing sound , this I feel
Is untrue and is needed to get better tone and decay.
most any preamp has a sweet spot in its volume knob to get there we can in most cases adjust the input gain
a dac to me is the same and it’s digital input gain is how we adjust to find the sweet spot of a dac.
each track or album is louder or lower and using the digital output volume is used to adjust the tone.
Is untrue and is needed to get better tone and decay.
most any preamp has a sweet spot in its volume knob to get there we can in most cases adjust the input gain
a dac to me is the same and it’s digital input gain is how we adjust to find the sweet spot of a dac.
each track or album is louder or lower and using the digital output volume is used to adjust the tone.
As long as you don't go below -40 dB on the digital level, you'll still have 16-bit resolution on modern devices. So don't use it as a complete volume control for the system.
Each bit represents 6dB of headroom, which means a 32-bit machine, as most are currently, has a range of 32x6 = 192dB.
CD can resolve 16x6 = 96dB. When playing CD quality, you could drop the level to (32-16)x6 = -96dB before impacting the resolution.
To play a 24-bit file at full resolution, you could drop the level by (32 - 24) x 6 = 48dB.
I feel your completely correct it's used only to make the system tone seem right
depending on the track a little more or less is used .
Even a CD player I feel has the same effect .
I currently use an older esoteric sa-50 it has a vol control . If I bypass I don't like it's sound
This varies on CD or sacd .
I have an all-digital system, so no need for an analog preamp. My DAC is my preamp, it controls switching and volume. Not all DAC's are good at this, it depends on the quality of the output stage.
What I can't understand is why this seems needed . And on more expensive dacs not as much or even at all.
Take man a top well made dac I owned one years ago it's analog output was needed to correct the tone . But not as a premap vol control. But generally much less needed most times.
Take man a top well made dac I owned one years ago it's analog output was needed to correct the tone . But not as a premap vol control. But generally much less needed most times.
That depends on how many bits your music has or whether you're upsampling. You just showed me what your DAC is technically capable of. Not what it does with music.
The real limitation is the DAC, not the digital engine feeding it. In my experience digitally attenuating more than 12dB is a serious compromise. Fortunately some DACs have switchable analog output amplitude in 6 - 9 dB steps and we can optimize matching.
Most dacs have a display in numbers now what each digit means I’m not sure
but overall a matching must be tried
player vol is needed but in some cases can’t be used then what’s left is gain settings in the dac and preamp
most times this is enough.
In part the goal is to find and use the sweet spot of all devices once done digital sounds very different from non setup.
but overall a matching must be tried
player vol is needed but in some cases can’t be used then what’s left is gain settings in the dac and preamp
most times this is enough.
In part the goal is to find and use the sweet spot of all devices once done digital sounds very different from non setup.
I compared a couple of passive preamps, a Bryston .5B and a Meitner PA6i Plus (Plus indicates manufacturer circuit and parts upgrades from the original), to an Audiolab 8200CD, used with and without level control. The Audiolab performed better as a preamp than the analog preamps. Later I bought a Benchmark DAC3, which was slightly better than the Audiolab, and finally an exaSound e32, which was a significant upgrade over the others.
ExaSound's George Klissarov is clear in his recommendation. He says any preamp will degrade the sound vs. an exaSound DAC directly connected to the power amp. I don't know whether that is correct, but I don't need an analogue preamp and that will definitively not be where I spend money to improve my system.
I have a friend who was using a Tambaqui DAC and Allnic preamp. He tried direct connection from the DAC to his Allnic monoblocks and sold the Allnic preamp.
Barrows is a designer for Sonore. He liked the D90 a lot. He normally advocates directly connecting of a DAC to a power amp, but not the D90.
"I had a D-90 here for awhile. It is a superb DAC for the money. I had it driving my amp(s) direct, and felt that it lacked a bit running that way, this is not really surprising considering the tiny power supply and low current capability of the opamps driving the output. This is one DAC where I would recommend pairing it with a good preamp."
audiophilestyle.com
Hopefully the steady stream of D90-tier DACs that Topping has released since the original perform better in this regard.
My only experience with Topping was a D50S, which made music sound boring. Specs were immaculate but musicality was substandard due to poor PRaT. It was outperformed in my desktop system by three lower-priced and similar-priced DACs from Schiit and iFi Audio.
ExaSound's George Klissarov is clear in his recommendation. He says any preamp will degrade the sound vs. an exaSound DAC directly connected to the power amp. I don't know whether that is correct, but I don't need an analogue preamp and that will definitively not be where I spend money to improve my system.
I have a friend who was using a Tambaqui DAC and Allnic preamp. He tried direct connection from the DAC to his Allnic monoblocks and sold the Allnic preamp.
Barrows is a designer for Sonore. He liked the D90 a lot. He normally advocates directly connecting of a DAC to a power amp, but not the D90.
"I had a D-90 here for awhile. It is a superb DAC for the money. I had it driving my amp(s) direct, and felt that it lacked a bit running that way, this is not really surprising considering the tiny power supply and low current capability of the opamps driving the output. This is one DAC where I would recommend pairing it with a good preamp."
AK4499 DACs
Is there a simple DAC available with this chipset? I don't want or need the Bluetooth connectivity or MQA - just USB and Co-ax SPDIF. Thanks Alan
audiophilestyle.com
Hopefully the steady stream of D90-tier DACs that Topping has released since the original perform better in this regard.
My only experience with Topping was a D50S, which made music sound boring. Specs were immaculate but musicality was substandard due to poor PRaT. It was outperformed in my desktop system by three lower-priced and similar-priced DACs from Schiit and iFi Audio.
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No. It really doesn't. I'm not sure why you think it does.
A dac that doesn't soundstage as deep as another, isn't by definition, flat.
A dac that isn't as dynamic as another, isn't without dynamics.
Fewer tonal colors isn't grey.
Lacking in one area compared to another DAC, doesn't mean that quality doesn't exist in the DAC or that it's all the way to the extreme.
Because it means this inherently by definition.
Something that doesn't soundstage deep or make 3D images is...well Flat
Something that lacks dynamics compared to another DAC, which is better capturing what is on the recording is by definition compressed
Something that has fewer tonal colors is by definition grey. From the Mirriam-Webster dictionary: c: dull in color
it doesn't mean the Topping is the MOST flat, the MOST compressed or the MOST grey sounding DAC, but it does fit that description compared to superior DACs.
Just to weigh in here — I think this discussion misses an important point about context.
Yes, compared to ultra high-end DACs costing 5–20x more, a Topping DAC might lack some of the harmonic richness, spatial layering, or "organic" texture you get from top-tier tube or R2R gear. But that doesn't justify calling it flat, grey, or compressed — unless you're completely ignoring price and value.
The reality is: Topping DACs outperform most gear in their class and even rival components at 2–3x their cost in terms of performance, transparency, and detail. They are neutral and accurate — and for many listeners, that's exactly the point.
Dismissing them because they don’t sound like a €10k Lampizator feels like comparing a well-engineered sports sedan to a Ferrari and saying the sedan is “lifeless.” It's not — it's just targeting a different use case and market. You can say a DAC lacks certain traits compared to high-end gear — but labeling it ‘flat or compressed’ ignores its actual performance and the fact that, for the price, it punches far above its weight
Appreciate both perspectives here, but let’s not lose sight of the incredible price-to-performance value these DACs offer.
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