Snake-oil = confirmation bias.
Best to spend one’s scratch on vinyl/tape/ hi-rez!!
happy holidays everyone!
Best to spend one’s scratch on vinyl/tape/ hi-rez!!
happy holidays everyone!
Tube Dampers
- Thread starter marty
- Start date
Having tried Duende Criatura, EAT and several others several years ago whose names I forgot I have found only one that doesn‘t kill dynamics: Mad Scientist Tube Toppers. He though seems to have stopped making them…
On small signal tubes, putting a 1/4in ball of Bluetack works pretty well, too.
On small signal tubes, putting a 1/4in ball of Bluetack works pretty well, too.
I recommend Herbie’s ultrasonic RX tube dampers. If you use it together with shun mook tube resonators result becomes more satisfying with increased detail, harmonic texture and organic character. There is also an ebony alternative which sounds a little bit stronger on midbass. Stay away from those orange rubber alternatives. Best is achieving a setup after meticulous tuning which doesn’t need any of these.
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Every tweak every audiophile does increases soundstage, refines the bass, clarifies micro-dynamics, and brings out richer harmonic texture. And then, after every tube is swathed in yak’s butter and squeezed by himilayan silicone, all interconnects are frozen in deep space, and bits of ancient crystal and free-range organic ebony are strategically distributed about one’s turntable, the audiophile in question gets the odd urge to remove all of it. Lo and behold, soundstage is increased, bass is refined, micro-dynamics are clarified, and the system is now blessed with a richer harmonic texture.
I've always just used the ones that came with my ARC equipment. Seems like they have included them for many years now.
This is a valid topic and not just snake oil. The reason why is all tubes are microphonic to some degree, so the sound produced by the speaker will vibrate the tubes and the mechanical energy in the sound waves will be converted to electrical energy and sent back to the speaker, forming a feedback loop. You can hear this by gently tapping on a tube. Some may do very little, some may be very audible, it varies by type, use and even sample to sample variance.
The question is whether this is good or bad. If it's bad, then you'd want to isolate the tubes from the speakers. If good, then you can either leave them to their feedback or modify the feedback in hopes of improving or fine-tuning the effect.
Imo feedback via tube microphony can be either good or bad depending on whether the feedback is more or less psychoacoustically correct. If the feedback makes the sound match what your brain expects to hear, it's good. If not, it's bad.
In any case, ideally you're looking at damping tubes... either to eliminate microphony as much as possible, or you're tuning it to achieve the most psychoacoustically correct sound. Or maybe moving the amp out of the listening room. Or deciding it doesn't matter enough to bother with.
What do tube dampers do? Besides damping they are non-linear filters or equalizers. Just from a WAG, Silicone rings are likely to damp high frequencies far more than low frequencies. It's pretty likely from previous experience they will sound worse than no damper because of this non-linear damping behavior. It depends on the tube in question, the system, and personal preference though, so YMMV. Just like footers, YMMV and it's really hard to tell both what the feedback frequency response curve looks like without dampers at all, nevermind what tube dampers are actually doing. It probably varies a lot depending on how the tube is supported too, ceramic vs teflon sockets, PCB vs PtP, etc. So unfortunately like a lot of things we're left with trial and error. The only thing I can offer is that soft materials generally deaden the sound and don't sound subjectively good, this is pretty universal with damping any part of the system with the exception of the speaker/floor interface.
I damp some tubes, but haven't found a solution that I think is a large improvement vs leaving them undamped. I also have not bothered to try a ton of different solutions. The rectifier is often a small improvement, followed by the 6SL7s that are doing all the voltage amplification, but those are ruggedized military versions with a metal base that may be more immune to vibration than other 6SL7s... who knows, lol. Happy New Year.
The question is whether this is good or bad. If it's bad, then you'd want to isolate the tubes from the speakers. If good, then you can either leave them to their feedback or modify the feedback in hopes of improving or fine-tuning the effect.
Imo feedback via tube microphony can be either good or bad depending on whether the feedback is more or less psychoacoustically correct. If the feedback makes the sound match what your brain expects to hear, it's good. If not, it's bad.
In any case, ideally you're looking at damping tubes... either to eliminate microphony as much as possible, or you're tuning it to achieve the most psychoacoustically correct sound. Or maybe moving the amp out of the listening room. Or deciding it doesn't matter enough to bother with.
What do tube dampers do? Besides damping they are non-linear filters or equalizers. Just from a WAG, Silicone rings are likely to damp high frequencies far more than low frequencies. It's pretty likely from previous experience they will sound worse than no damper because of this non-linear damping behavior. It depends on the tube in question, the system, and personal preference though, so YMMV. Just like footers, YMMV and it's really hard to tell both what the feedback frequency response curve looks like without dampers at all, nevermind what tube dampers are actually doing. It probably varies a lot depending on how the tube is supported too, ceramic vs teflon sockets, PCB vs PtP, etc. So unfortunately like a lot of things we're left with trial and error. The only thing I can offer is that soft materials generally deaden the sound and don't sound subjectively good, this is pretty universal with damping any part of the system with the exception of the speaker/floor interface.
I damp some tubes, but haven't found a solution that I think is a large improvement vs leaving them undamped. I also have not bothered to try a ton of different solutions. The rectifier is often a small improvement, followed by the 6SL7s that are doing all the voltage amplification, but those are ruggedized military versions with a metal base that may be more immune to vibration than other 6SL7s... who knows, lol. Happy New Year.
Watch the video i posted. Many of the reasons people give for why they work are debunked.
if your tubes are microphonic, they need to be replaced, not damped.
Gentlemen, our goal is to have a friendly place where everyone shares ideas and information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create. Let's try to be a little bit more friendly with each other or utilize the ignore feature.
Some unnecessary posts have been cleaned up from this thread.
Tom
Some unnecessary posts have been cleaned up from this thread.
Tom
