Turntable Level

[PaulB]

guys, take a look at this unit. I have used their machinist products in the past setting up speakers and they work very well. It is quite accurate and allows you to look at your smartphone rather than a bubble on the table.

Digi-Pas 2-Axis Smart Cube Level​

 

[mtemur]

It’s almost impossible to find a bubble level which is accurate enough but you don’t need an accurate bubble level to perfectly level your turntable. Any bubble level will do the job if you follow the instructions below.

1. The most important piece to be leveled is platter. If platter is perfectly leveled bearing will also be perpendicular and will work more effectively.
2. IOT do that put a bubble level at the edge of the platter.
3. Check the level at 4 points 90 degrees intervals by turning the platter. Don’t touch the bubble level.
4. Try to achieve the same level on all places across the platter. It doesn’t have to be zero but it should be the same image when you look from the arrow in the pictures.

 

[mtemur]

BTW if you want an accurate digital level this one is great and S version has 0.01 degree sensitivity. More importantly it has a calibration function that works well.
https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Protractor-Inclinometer-0-02Degree-Magnetic/dp/B077T7XW7X?th=1

 

[Johan K]

I use the Clearaudio ”High Precision” Level Gauge Precision Bubble. Calibrated and VERY accurate. Easy to use and stored in a very nice hard case box. Though quite expensive. Behold !

/ Jk

 

[tony22]

I use a DigiPas

 

[mtemur]

You don’t need an accurate bubble level. Just use any bubble level with the method I explained earlier.

 

[Johan K]

You don’t need an accurate bubble level. Just use any bubble level with the method I explained earlier.

That is true… and you don’t need a turntable either… But if I use a level, I want it to be accurate… Otherwise, what’s the use to be meticulous in other areas too? Measure tools should ALWAYS be as accurate as possible in my opinion…. Just saying…

/ Jk

 

[mtemur]

That is true… and you don’t need a turntable either… But if I use a level, I want it to be accurate… Otherwise, what’s the use to be meticulous in other areas too? Measure tools should ALWAYS be as accurate as possible in my opinion…. Just saying…

/ Jk

You don’t have to give up accuracy. You probably misunderstood what I said. I meant you don’t need an accurate level to achieve the most accurate result. Just use the method I explained.

You still need to use the same method even if you have an accurate level cause turntable platters are not always flat. I have a calibrated precision level but I still use that method. It’s not mine or I didn’t invent it. It’s a common thing.

 

[tony22]

I

You don’t need an accurate bubble level. Just use any bubble level with the method I explained earlier.

I agree. Your method is the same one I use even with my DigiPas. I use it and not a bubble level because the orientation of my table makes it impossible for me to be sure I have the exact same viewing angle on the bubble at all four positions. My TT is surrounded on three sides, so the visual skew uncertainty is something I didn’t want to add to the process.

 

[treitz3]

Digi-Pas here for me as well. It's worth the wait.

Works great on dialing in speakers as well (provided you have a flat top speaker). I have found this to be more accurate than lasers/bubbles.

Tom

 

[lem321]

Check out this item from Level Developments in the UK reviewed by Dennis Davis in GY8. Pricey, but may be worth it.

Leveling Up? - Gy8

 

[Zeotrope]

Check out this item from Level Developments in the UK reviewed by Dennis Davis in GY8. Pricey, but may be worth it.

Leveling Up? - Gy8

Looks like a really great option, for a non-suspended table.
Just had a thought about suspended tables: is there not a degree of self suspension with floating tables?

 

[jfrech]

Check out this item from Level Developments in the UK reviewed by Dennis Davis in GY8. Pricey, but may be worth it.

Leveling Up? - Gy8

So I told my dealer (Ne Plus Ultra in Austin, Tx) about this level. He bought it and we leveled out my table using it yesterday. Before, I was using a Starrett 130 Bench level. https://www.starrett.com/details?cat-no=130

Right off the bat the Level Developments clearly showed more leveling was needed with its higher accuracy. I will say, leveling the shelf and turntable took about an hour. It's that precise and the adjustments on my Grand Prix Audio Rack and Monaco Turnable that I previously thought had very fine threads for adjustment proved to be a bit course for this level. Before, I would make a 1/4 turn, now you needed to make like a hair/razor thin 1/32 or so turn on the threads. You'd overshoot and have to come back. Plus, I'm on a 2nd floor, so just standing near the level on the shelf and turntable effects it (so the floor joists were bending under my weight).

Net net I stood far away, my dealer, would make an adjustment and step back 10 feet. Wait for the level to settle down, then adjust more.

So I hope you have patience (my dealers is much better than mine!) ! Does that patience pay off? Yeah, it' sounds better. Not a lot, but it is noticeable. A bit more resolution, a bit more ease. Just more focus maybe.

I can't imagine this will stay level, temperature changes, moisture in the soil and the foundation shifts. Today it's 73 degrees in my listening room, yesterday it was 77. So this level has such resolution it's going to measure all of that and drive me nuts

Now for the bad part. If you spin the Level Developments Level 180 degrees, so flip the left to right. It reads different ?!? It's like its base isn't level!!! More madness trying to see which orientation is really level ????

My conclusion, leveling matters. I think I may by a better Starrett level and not fool around with this so much. Time will tell. Here's the better Starrett I am thinking about https://www.starrett.com/details?cat-no=98-6

Thanks to Ne Plus Ultra for having the patience I don't have !!

 

[Zeotrope]

So I told my dealer (Ne Plus Ultra in Austin, Tx) about this level. He bought it and we leveled out my table using it yesterday. Before, I was using a Starrett 130 Bench level. https://www.starrett.com/details?cat-no=130

Right off the bat the Level Developments clearly showed more leveling was needed with its higher accuracy. I will say, leveling the shelf and turntable took about an hour. It's that precise and the adjustments on my Grand Prix Audio Rack and Monaco Turnable that I previously thought had very fine threads for adjustment proved to be a bit course for this level. Before, I would make a 1/4 turn, now you needed to make like a hair/razor thin 1/32 or so turn on the threads. You'd overshoot and have to come back. Plus, I'm on a 2nd floor, so just standing near the level on the shelf and turntable effects it (so the floor joists were bending under my weight).

Net net I stood far away, my dealer, would make an adjustment and step back 10 feet. Wait for the level to settle down, then adjust more.

So I hope you have patience (my dealers is much better than mine!) ! Does that patience pay off? Yeah, it' sounds better. Not a lot, but it is noticeable. A bit more resolution, a bit more ease. Just more focus maybe.

I can't imagine this will stay level, temperature changes, moisture in the soil and the foundation shifts. Today it's 73 degrees in my listening room, yesterday it was 77. So this level has such resolution it's going to measure all of that and drive me nuts

Now for the bad part. If you spin the Level Developments Level 180 degrees, so flip the left to right. It reads different ?!? It's like its base isn't level!!! More madness trying to see which orientation is really level ????

My conclusion, leveling matters. I think I may by a better Starrett level and not fool around with this so much. Time will tell. Here's the better Starrett I am thinking about https://www.starrett.com/details?cat-no=98-6

Thanks to Ne Plus Ultra for having the patience I don't have !!

Indeed, you can really go crazy trying to level precisely. Largely because every level has error, every single one. What’s nice about the digital ones is that they publish the error. For instance, my Mitutotoyo is accurate to +/- 0.05 degrees [I think], so there’s no point trying to get a result that is closer than the error.
The other source of error is the 0 point. Just because the display says 0, it doesn’t mean it’s actually 0.
And if the platter is suspended, the weight of the level can affect it.
I think the most important orientation to level is the path taken by the stylus across the record.

 

[jfrech]

I think the most important orientation to level is the path taken by the stylus across the record.

Hi, I agree with your other points, but this one is interesting, as I leveled left to right, front to back. Not in alignment with the path by the stylus. Hmm, will have to try this !

 

[djsina2]

I got the Digi-Pas, a real quality unit. I agree though that shooting for 0.00 on the second floor with wood framing is probably not entirely realistic.

 

[Zeotrope]

Hi, I agree with your other points, but this one is interesting, as I leveled left to right, front to back. Not in alignment with the path by the stylus. Hmm, will have to try this !

I think the most important angle to be level is the path the stylus takes. If you compare the front-back and the left-right, it’s easy to ’chase your tail’ and gain in one measurement but get further away in the other…
And as you said, it doesn’t make a huge difference, as long as you’re near perfect, I can’t see it making a noticeable difference. If the TT motor has sufficient torque (which I’m sure yours does), it can handle pulling the stylus ’upwards’, and the rest is antiskate, which is never perfect anyway.

 

[Solypsa]

Now for the bad part. If you spin the Level Developments Level 180 degrees, so flip the left to right. It reads different ?!? It's like its base isn't level!!! More madness trying to see which orientation is really level ????

Making something actually flat is a big part of why calibrated levels for sensitive work are so expensive. The base and the vial. Hence the machinist levels are under $200 to start but go up to $1200...

 

[Zeotrope]

Making something actually flat is a big part of why calibrated levels for sensitive work are so expensive. The base and the vial. Hence the machinist levels are under $200 to start but go up to $1200...

Yes. And this is why the Mitutoyo digital level (PRO3600) is about $500.
Crucially, you can re-calibrate it, which they recommend every day.
The 3600 is +/- .05 degrees. The 360 is +/- .1 degrees and is less expensive.

 

[mtemur]

Now for the bad part. If you spin the Level Developments Level 180 degrees, so flip the left to right. It reads different ?!? It's like its base isn't level!!! More madness trying to see which orientation is really level ????

It’s because the level you’re using is not calibrated. Just like almost all other levels it’s showing wrong results. Unfortunately your turntable’s platter is not leveled because of this problem. An accurate, precise level should show the same results when tilted/flipped 180 degrees or 90 degrees.

But there is a solution you don’t need a calibrated level to level the platter. BTW leveling platter is the most important thing, important than plinth and stand. Try this

I also use a digital level with 0.01degree accuracy and calibrate it but still level the platter the way I explained above. That’s the only way to level a platter no matter what level you use.