Various DAC Audition Impressions

[Alrainbow]

Well I follow you Al right up to no local files lol. I agree a good transport is better than streaming at most all times. but if you don’t stream at all how do you find new music ?

jays lab is too long winded for little real info and his conclusions really have little relevance in what some look for.
streaming can be really good up until you pop in a cd or local files then it’s obvious.
at axpona the MSB room on older magico speakers was to me best digital by a margin.
analog was doshi even if it’s bass was too heavy.
both were very magical in a grand scale
but MSB is top shelf not cheap stuff.
DCS is a very detailed neutral product not a digital sound but in a compare the MSB or Lampi Horizon Is more analog in musicality
a DCS dac is like a white canvas and what you want needs to be built Around it. Lampi or even MSB is more magic out of the box.
now how much is a min or needed. I’ve had and do now a a few Cheaper SS dacs from 800 to a few K
really nice but like steaming once you try a more balanced and higher price it’s obvious.
now for some digital is not a primary source of audio so they most Likely not hear nor care to spend more money.
but great digital is great audio too.
One dac and cd transport combo I think shows a very consistent great sound is esoteric has anyone commented on this ?

 

[godofwealth]

Try to audition on elf you can. This DAC wildly exceeded even my best expectations. I've had it now in my system for 2 weeks and friends say it's as though I got a new amplifier and new speakers. I've written a "review" on my findings in the forum if interested .

I haven’t heard the Tambaqui, but I just got the Makua preamp with the built-in DAC and phono stage. According to Brian Putzeys, the designer, the built in DAC in the Makua is the same as the Tambaqui with the added advantage the volume control is a class A discrete circuit, not a digital volume control as on the Tambaqui. The built in phono stage sets new heights for me in terms of customizability. I can set the Makua to play back 5 phono cartridges on my turntables, all from my iPhone. Brilliant interface, the best I’ve ever seen

All in all, the Makua is the most well designed all in one preamplifier I have owned in 30+ years, beginning with my first preamplifier — the Classe’ DR-5 that Harry Pearson raved about in TAS in the early 1990s. I’m waiting to get the companion Kaluga monoblocks before writing a review. The DAC is world class. It’s highly revealing, yet musical.

Here’s the Makua playing back a mono vinyl record from my restored Garrard 301 using a Miyajima Zero cartridge. It’s hooked up to the network through a LAN cable and is Roon certified. Streaming is bulletproof. The preamp is all class A and runs warm. It’s quite tiny! But exceedingly well built. Highly recommended.

 

[acousticsguru]

The Ring DAC uses FPGA as well.

Not really. By that definition, almost all modern DACs would be FPGA DACs. Normally, the term is reserved for ones that use an FPGA instead of a DAC chip or proprietary conversion board. In the dCS, the FPGA does the resampling to and merging of the bitstreams (five) and randomized switching of the 96 latches next the the resistors in the Ring DAC (which is the Ring DAC, and all-analogue board that, if the resistors where diodes, as in little light bulbs, would visibly pulse to the music).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Al M.]

Well I follow you Al right up to no local files lol. I agree a good transport is better than streaming at most all times. but if you don’t stream at all how do you find new music ?

I do stream YouTube to some extent. Other than that, I find music mostly from friends and Harvard Radio. I have so many CDs and CD box sets, I already can't even keep up.

I guess streaming on a system would drive me nuts. I don't like to listen to music in passing, but rather enjoy listen to everything at least a few times. Hopping from one thing to another with streaming just doesn't fit my style of listening. Others will feel differently. We live in a diverse world.

 

[Alrainbow]

when I get lay tidal many times it’s an entire album and then it finds new stuff I might like on radio
I mostly play music while I’m working I just can’t stay still in a chair very long. It’s not that f the sound is great or not it’s just me.
now I do sit in place when playing tape or vinyl lol.
vinyl keeps me focused more but it’s not just sound it’s I need to lift the arm at the end and 45 really keep me focused.
streaming gets me focused on new stuff if it sounds good , this then gets me to see if I own it and compare.

 

[Lee]

Not really. By that definition, almost all modern DACs would be FPGA DACs. Normally, the term is reserved for ones that use an FPGA instead of a DAC chip or proprietary conversion board. In the dCS, the FPGA does the resampling to and merging of the bitstreams (five) and randomized switching of the 96 latches next the the resistors in the Ring DAC (which is the Ring DAC, and all-analogue board that, if the resistors where diodes, as in little light bulbs, would visibly pulse to the music).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

This is splitting hairs. In the Ring DAC the FPGA is core to the conversion process.

 

[Alrainbow]

I think the core conversation should be sound not how it’s made just saying

 

[acousticsguru]

This is splitting hairs. In the Ring DAC the FPGA is core to the conversion process.

Depends on one’s definition of “DAC” (to me: “digital to analogue conversion”, not digital to digital). By your definition, any Delta/Sigma or R2R DAC using an FPGA to resample or oversample would be an FPGA DAC (even if the D/A conversion is performed by an R2R or Delta/Sigma chip or discrete resistor ladder).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Calvinj]

For those who have not heard the Infigo Method 4 Dac we will be at the Lone Star Audio Fest in Dallas first weekend in June. Come check it out!

 

[Kingrex]

I mentioned in another thread I sent my First Sound Paramount Mark 3SI-X2 to be upgraded. While out I put my Schiit Valhalla 2 in as a system preamp. Well, it blew a tube and catastrophically destroyed everything attached. It blew a subwoofer, it blew my DAC, and thank god the Dartzeel has the crowbar fuse system as only the fuse was blown.

Anyhow, the DAC went back to Mojo Audio. Ben was very fair in repair pricing. He was surprised my unit had a Z chip in it. He said that is the best of the best DAC chip you can buy. It must have been his personal unit. He had to install 2 new Z chip and while at it did other choke, vibration and RF upgrading. My DAC should be as good as they get.
The real point of the story is Ben is adamant that using a Jays Audio Lab CD3 Mk3 CD transport via spdif/AES to the DAC far exceeds streaming. His belief is no matter how many LPS you add to a computer server, the mothet board is covered with SMPS. He really wants me to purchase the transport. He says I can take any files I have ripped to WAV via DB poweramp and burn them to a dsc as mix CD and they will outperform my Vinyl. I find it hard to swallow a CD is that much better than streaming. But, Ben built my server, and has the CD transport, so he has extreme indepth knowledge. It makes me curious. Its only $4995 to get the transport. Significantly less than any server. FWIW, he has tried many of the "Audiophile" grade servers and he says, use the Jays transport. I asked about a Taiko. He's never heard it. But thats $35k????? Vs $5k.

I guess what I am saying is you probably don't know what your DAC is really capable of if you don't feed it a good signal.

And, people should consider a Mojo Audio DAC. The lastest models are built on the best components available. They price around $12k direct sale. That means its a $30k DAC retail. He tried to sell through dealers, but dealers said why sell ykut DAC and make $5 to $7k when they can sell an MSB or Vivaldi and make $15 to $20k. I think people should start looking at what Mojo Audio has to offer. Stop thinking its not as good as a $60k DAC because its too affordable. Its affordable because its direct sale and no advertising. I have always wondered why my vinyl isn't much better than my digital. Well, now with an upgraded DAC, maybe it won't be anymore. And if I get the Jays CD3, maybe the digital will be better. I have played this leap frog in the past.

 

[Alrainbow]

Depends on one’s definition of “DAC” (to me: “digital to analogue conversion”, not digital to digital). By your definition, any Delta/Sigma or R2R DAC using an FPGA to resample or oversample would be an FPGA DAC (even if the D/A conversion is performed by an R2R or Delta/Sigma chip or discrete resistor ladder).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Off topic we can’t hear digital unless it’s made to be analog
I get what your saying but it’s not true In a pure sense
all that happens in digital is not analog intil
It’s in our amps

 

[Alrainbow]

Rex a very true comment to deaf ears lol.
and local can better still if it’s done well.
at axpona MSB room streamed but I asked Vince to cheat for me and play a local file
He played a cd and wow what a room
Streaming can be very good but it’s very hard to get right and network has so many variables to fix
taiko is a master streamer server as MSB in streaming. taiko is putting a large effort to make it best.
wadax does too. one day I would like to compare local , streaming and transport
Same system , server , streamer dac
but a cd transport is a very inexpensive way to hit the high mark on most dacs

 

[bozebuttons]

I mentioned in another thread I sent my First Sound Paramount Mark 3SI-X2 to be upgraded. While out I put my Schiit Valhalla 2 in as a system preamp. Well, it blew a tube and catastrophically destroyed everything attached. It blew a subwoofer, it blew my DAC, and thank god the Dartzeel has the crowbar fuse system as only the fuse was blown.

Anyhow, the DAC went back to Mojo Audio. Ben was very fair in repair pricing. He was surprised my unit had a Z chip in it. He said that is the best of the best DAC chip you can buy. It must have been his personal unit. He had to install 2 new Z chip and while at it did other choke, vibration and RF upgrading. My DAC should be as good as they get.
The real point of the story is Ben is adamant that using a Jays Audio Lab CD3 Mk3 CD transport via spdif/AES to the DAC far exceeds streaming. His belief is no matter how many LPS you add to a computer server, the mothet board is covered with SMPS. He really wants me to purchase the transport. He says I can take any files I have ripped to WAV via DB poweramp and burn them to a dsc as mix CD and they will outperform my Vinyl. I find it hard to swallow a CD is that much better than streaming. But, Ben built my server, and has the CD transport, so he has extreme indepth knowledge. It makes me curious. Its only $4995 to get the transport. Significantly less than any server. FWIW, he has tried many of the "Audiophile" grade servers and he says, use the Jays transport. I asked about a Taiko. He's never heard it. But thats $35k????? Vs $5k.

I guess what I am saying is you probably don't know what your DAC is really capable of if you don't feed it a good signal.

And, people should consider a Mojo Audio DAC. The lastest models are built on the best components available. They price around $12k direct sale. That means its a $30k DAC retail. He tried to sell through dealers, but dealers said why sell ykut DAC and make $5 to $7k when they can sell an MSB or Vivaldi and make $15 to $20k. I think people should start looking at what Mojo Audio has to offer. Stop thinking its not as good as a $60k DAC because its too affordable. Its affordable because its direct sale and no advertising. I have always wondered why my vinyl isn't much better than my digital. Well, now with an upgraded DAC, maybe it won't be anymore. And if I get the Jays CD3, maybe the digital will be better. I have played this leap frog in the past.

I can highly recommend the Jays audio CD3 Mk 3 transport as that's what I feed my Pacific with spdif ,this transport is well built & heavy.
also I use the QNP bone clamp,I was using a EMM labs CDSD before as a transport before it failed for the 2nd time.
The Jays is a much better transport for CD'S

 

[marty]

He says I can take any files I have ripped to WAV via DB poweramp and burn them to a dsc as mix CD and they will outperform my Vinyl.

Seriously? That's throwing down quite a gauntlet! Are you sure he's not going up against something like this?

 

[Kingrex]

Seriously? That's throwing down quite a gauntlet! Are you sure he's not going up against something like this?

View attachment 109050

Well, thats a nice TT. Very good plastic.

I want to hear the Jays CD transport. I am not sure digital and vinyl differences are not more a funtion of the playback equipment than the format. If much of the new vinyl I get has a digital step, then is what I perceive in playback a function of the media or the equipment.

 

[Al M.]

Well, thats a nice TT. Very good plastic.

I want to hear the Jays CD transport. I am not sure digital and vinyl differences are not more a funtion of the playback equipment than the format.

The two media will always sound different. That is at a minimum inherent in the, by necessity, different mastering process for vinyl (see multiple web sources).

Sound *quality* differences are another matter.

The Jays CD transport sounds very good.

 

[charles1dad]

@Alrainbow
“but a cd transport is a very inexpensive way to hit the high mark on most dacs”

Very astute point.
Charles

 

[emyyl]

I mentioned in another thread I sent my First Sound Paramount Mark 3SI-X2 to be upgraded. While out I put my Schiit Valhalla 2 in as a system preamp. Well, it blew a tube and catastrophically destroyed everything attached. It blew a subwoofer, it blew my DAC, and thank god the Dartzeel has the crowbar fuse system as only the fuse was blown.

Anyhow, the DAC went back to Mojo Audio. Ben was very fair in repair pricing. He was surprised my unit had a Z chip in it. He said that is the best of the best DAC chip you can buy. It must have been his personal unit. He had to install 2 new Z chip and while at it did other choke, vibration and RF upgrading. My DAC should be as good as they get.
The real point of the story is Ben is adamant that using a Jays Audio Lab CD3 Mk3 CD transport via spdif/AES to the DAC far exceeds streaming. His belief is no matter how many LPS you add to a computer server, the mothet board is covered with SMPS. He really wants me to purchase the transport. He says I can take any files I have ripped to WAV via DB poweramp and burn them to a dsc as mix CD and they will outperform my Vinyl. I find it hard to swallow a CD is that much better than streaming. But, Ben built my server, and has the CD transport, so he has extreme indepth knowledge. It makes me curious. Its only $4995 to get the transport. Significantly less than any server. FWIW, he has tried many of the "Audiophile" grade servers and he says, use the Jays transport. I asked about a Taiko. He's never heard it. But thats $35k????? Vs $5k.

I guess what I am saying is you probably don't know what your DAC is really capable of if you don't feed it a good signal.

And, people should consider a Mojo Audio DAC. The lastest models are built on the best components available. They price around $12k direct sale. That means its a $30k DAC retail. He tried to sell through dealers, but dealers said why sell ykut DAC and make $5 to $7k when they can sell an MSB or Vivaldi and make $15 to $20k. I think people should start looking at what Mojo Audio has to offer. Stop thinking its not as good as a $60k DAC because its too affordable. Its affordable because its direct sale and no advertising. I have always wondered why my vinyl isn't much better than my digital. Well, now with an upgraded DAC, maybe it won't be anymore. And if I get the Jays CD3, maybe the digital will be better. I have played this leap frog in the past.

I come from the vinyl era and have struggled to accept CD sound all these years. Now I rip my CD's into a server ---Laufer Teknik's Memory Player 64-16. The sound from the server is very analog and for the first time I am happy listening to digital. This is despite a modest DAC --- Naim DAC V1, which I have since upgraded to a Denafrips Venus 2.

I have not listened to many streamers but my experience with most have been disjointed and not interesting, even with a top quality DAC like a Berkeley Audio Reference.

The Memory Player has special firmware that reorganizes the bits from a CD into series in memory (as opposed to the usual random access memory from hard disks). Essentially the data is organized sequentially like on a vinyl record. Perhaps that is why it sounds so analog and not disjointed. Although they are expensive new they are heavily discounted when used.

 

[Kingrex]

I come from the vinyl era and have struggled to accept CD sound all these years. Now I rip my CD's into a server ---Laufer Teknik's Memory Player 64-16. The sound from the server is very analog and for the first time I am happy listening to digital. This is despite a modest DAC --- Naim DAC V1, which I have since upgraded to a Denafrips Venus 2.

I have not listened to many streamers but my experience with most have been disjointed and not interesting, even with a top quality DAC like a Berkeley Audio Reference.

The Memory Player has special firmware that reorganizes the bits from a CD into series in memory (as opposed to the usual random access memory from hard disks). Essentially the data is organized sequentially like on a vinyl record. Perhaps that is why it sounds so analog and not disjointed. Although they are expensive new they are heavily discounted when used.

I have looked for a memory player. Do you know of any? There are quality issues with some of the production models I have seen. I would be interested in a memory player if I could find one. As far as I know, I could load files I have ripped with DBPoweramp and access them in a memory player and get the same CD sound via COAX or SPDIF.

 

[emyyl]

That's the point: through the memory player, it's NOT the same CD sound! The simplest way I can describe it is the sound is shorn of glare or sheen that I associate with digital. The other quality is a fluidity that you normally only get from vinyl. It may lack that last bit of immediacy that a good vinyl setup can give but it is a sound that is already so analog and non-fatiguing that I can live it for the longest time, with the added convenience of song selection at your fingertips. Here is a YouTube clip (

) comparing the Taiko Extreme, MP and Innuos Statement recorded at their Hong Kong dealer. Even through YT (but only just!), you can hear the lack of sheen and fluidity of the MP. Since then I find the sound from streaming disjointed.

I find that the MP's claim of proprietary technology that reorganizes the bits sequentially in memory really works. It's a pity that there is so little info and marketing about the MP on the web. I find that most servers on the market address the hardware and UI (software) issues, but none addresses the underlying jitter issue in the files the way the MP does. I have used NAS and MacMini with HQPlayer software. The sound can be different or denser using hi-res or filters but it still can't escape its digital glare.

I got my MP used from the Hong Kong dealer. I frequently see units listed on Hifi Shark selling between $8k to $10k.

With the non-fatiguing sound of the MP, I have further enhanced the sound of my setup with switches, reclockers, renderers and lps. I now connect the MP to a switch and renderer via good ethernet cable. The body, soundstage and timing have all gone up a notch but the starting point remains the non-glaring sound from the MP.