Visit to Christoph: Odeon horns, Kronzilla SX, Aries Cerat Diana, Apogee Scinitilla

[acousticsguru]

I haven't been very happy with the last set of downloads so even if they have them available I am sticking to LP or redbook and rip it myself. Most of these downloads add a lot of compression. The one I ordered is a reissue so fingers crossed.

Listening to the all-new DSD now, never heard this recording sound better! Happy camper!!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[christoph]

Hi David

I didn't know that you can play DSD...?
I'm happy for you that one of your favourite albums now sound better.

Reminds a little of my favourite movie (Big Lebowski) that had abysmal picture quality until it finally came out on hd-dvd

 

[acousticsguru]

Hi David

I didn't know that you can play DSD...?
I'm happy for you that one of your favourite albums now sound better.

Reminds a little of my favourite movie (Big Lebowski) that had abysmal picture quality until it finally came out on hd-dvd

I'll bring along the LP and the DSD next time to make comparisons on the Golden Gate and Golden Atlantic. As you know, I have no principled preference for "a format", indeed have always loved the LP of this recording, and will say that in my experience it's easier to get "palatable" sound from it on a turntable, but in order for both to sound equally well (might be more fair to say "equal"), I'm afraid a turntable below the price category of your Golden Gate need not a apply (piano may be the most fickle to get right on a turntable anyhow). As great and rightfully famous as this recording is, part of the legend has to do with a horribly mistreated Bösendorfer and the soloist's rage playing on it.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[acousticsguru]

I'll bring along the LP and the DSD next time to make comparisons on the Golden Gate and Golden Atlantic. As you know, I have no principled preference for "a format", indeed have always loved the LP of this recording, and will say that in my experience it's easier to get "palatable" sound from it on a turntable, but in order for both to sound equally well (might be more fair to say "equal"), I'm afraid a turntable below the price category of your Golden Gate need not a apply. As great and rightfully famous as this recording is, part of the legend has to do with a horribly mistreated Bösendorfer and the soloist's rage playing on it.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Having said all this, I sat transfixed in front of my stereo until almost 4 a.m. listening to the complete album in DSD twice in a row last night.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[bonzo75]

I'll bring along the LP and the DSD next time to make comparisons on the Golden Gate and Golden Atlantic. As you know, I have no principled preference for "a format", indeed have always loved the LP of this recording, and will say that in my experience it's easier to get "palatable" sound from it on a turntable, but in order for both to sound equally well (might be more fair to say "equal"), I'm afraid a turntable below the price category of your Golden Gate need not a apply (piano may be the most fickle to get right on a turntable anyhow). As great and rightfully famous as this recording is, part of the legend has to do with a horribly mistreated Bösendorfer and the soloist's rage playing on it.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

The turntable speed needs to be stable like DD plus a good timbral cartridge like Ortofon a95, Zyx, and actually SPU anniversarys get piano tone very well, liquid and fluid. Of course phono matters.

 

[acousticsguru]

The turntable speed needs to be stable like DD plus a good timbral cartridge like Ortofon a95, Zyx, and actually SPU anniversarys get piano tone very well, liquid and fluid. Of course phono matters.

Of course it does. And for this particular recording, in my experience, anything matters…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[morricab]

Of course it does. And for this particular recording, in my experience, anything matters…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

There are several particularly interesting recordings on ECM from that era like Ralph Towner Solstice and Chick Corea Trio Improvisations.

 

[morricab]

I get quite stable piano sound with this record. It helps that my pressing is centered...

 

[christoph]

Hi Stavros

Looks like you guys had great fun.The view from Christoph's window is amazing.

Couple of spoilers..
The specific Diana piece had a beta testing tuning on the both the interstage circuits.Input to driver and driver to output.This tuning makes the amp loose -8db in gain( that is why you used a separate preamp) and tuned on the soft side.Reason for this tuning, please allow me nit to disclose it but I certainly did not expect this particular piece to go around in demo/shoot outs with this test tuning.The current owner can confirm though not mandatory.
Eitherway the Diana will be returned to be re-tuned to the normal settings as all other Dianas.

Have you used the RCA tubes (black plate) I had send? or the bluish plate General electric?

Personally I use the former though you cannot argue with someone else taste.Some clients that like chamber music like the GEs while RCA are all arounder kind of tube.

Thanks for chiming in and the nice comment about my view. I really do love it. Listening to good music with such a view is a privilege I greatly enjoy.

I really like the lovely, airy and highly resolving sound of the Diana but especially in my huge and rather bass light room, I'm missing some chest, where the Diana is lighter than my Kronzilla. In a smaller room, the Diana might show more of her wonderful pontential.

I'm not sure which tubes are in the Diana atm.
The driver tubes do indeed look rather dark blue compared to output tube the look rather black.
Maybe Brad can say which ones are inserted...

It's nice to "talk" to the designer of the gear directly. Thanks for that.

Cheers,
Christoph

 

[microstrip]

The LP sounds better than the CD (referring to the original LP, can't vouch for the repressings, but assuming they're the same), but note there is also a high-resolution PCM download and the all-new SACD (last month) and DSD download (last week)!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

I own three versions of the The Koln Concert, including the original version LPs, played to exhaustion with Shure cartridges in the late 70's ... Although I love the recording, I would be very careful when using it for listening tests. The piano was known to sound thin and weak in the lows (I remember having read that Keith Jarrett wanted to cancel the performance when he found how poor the piano was - an (un)fortunate mistake ) and that the Newmann tube microphones "helped" a lot in the recording. IMHO the type of recording we enjoy but do not know how it should sound in reality. We also risk that the 40 year old original tapes have lost their spark, any comparison of new digital issues with original LPs is meaningless.

But having just read acousticsguru post, I think I will not resist getting the DSD remaster ... Can I ask from where you got it?

 

[dctom]

I have around 20 Jarrett LPs, besides the Koln, I particularly like the Bregenz/Munich 3LP set.
The Koln has been a go to record for listening tests for many years for me, on various systems. It has never sounded as good as it does now on the Kuzma TT with an atlas through the Ypsilon phono. The highs can sound very sharp and strident if things are not right.

I have two pressings, one I bought in the UK pressed in Germany pretty sure it is an original copy. The other I obtained 2nd hand in the states in Rasputins SF for $3,95, guess no one was buying vinyl then lol!

Physically they are quite different, just looking at them with the naked eye, the German copy has more highly modulated grooves than the one from the US. Hence the German one has much smaller blank groove sections on all sides.

I will now have to carry out a sonic comparison!

 

[wisnon]

Having said all this, I sat transfixed in front of my stereo until almost 4 a.m. listening to the complete album in DSD twice in a row last night.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

You guys North/East of the Rostigraben are having all the fun. Sigh.

 

[wisnon]

There are several particularly interesting recordings on ECM from that era like Ralph Towner Solstice and Chick Corea Trio Improvisations.

Just picked up the CD of Antonio Forcioni Quartet.What great music and fantastic recording! Cant wait till I get the DVD to rip in hi rez...

 

[acousticsguru]

I have around 20 Jarrett LPs, besides the Koln, I particularly like the Bregenz/Munich 3LP set.
The Koln has been a go to record for listening tests for many years for me, on various systems. It has never sounded as good as it does now on the Kuzma TT with an atlas through the Ypsilon phono. The highs can sound very sharp and strident if things are not right.

I have two pressings, one I bought in the UK pressed in Germany pretty sure it is an original copy. The other I obtained 2nd hand in the states in Rasputins SF for $3,95, guess no one was buying vinyl then lol!

Physically they are quite different, just looking at them with the naked eye, the German copy has more highly modulated grooves than the one from the US. Hence the German one has much smaller blank groove sections on all sides.

I will now have to carry out a sonic comparison!

I'm hoping Manfred Eicher will consider remastering the Bremen/Lausanne set in e.g. DSD - along with Köln, Bregenz/München (the high-resolution PCM download beats the LP hands down, as it's taken from the analogue backup master, in contrast to the LP that's from the early digital master) the third of my top handful favorites (although there are strong solo parts elsewhere, e.g. in the Sun Bear Concerts box-set). Of the Trio recordings, the one I'm itching most to hear in a new remastering is Standards Live (LP sounds great there, though, one of the last to be based on an analogue master, even if I'm speaking strictly from memory - currently have to do without preamp).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[acousticsguru]

I own three versions of the The Koln Concert, including the original version LPs, played to exhaustion with Shure cartridges in the late 70's ... Although I love the recording, I would be very careful when using it for listening tests. The piano was known to sound thin and weak in the lows (I remember having read that Keith Jarrett wanted to cancel the performance when he found how poor the piano was - an (un)fortunate mistake ) and that the Newmann tube microphones "helped" a lot in the recording. IMHO the type of recording we enjoy but do not know how it should sound in reality. We also risk that the 40 year old original tapes have lost their spark, any comparison of new digital issues with original LPs is meaningless.

But having just read acousticsguru post, I think I will not resist getting the DSD remaster ... Can I ask from where you got it?

Not sure if I'm allowed to post direct links? Sorry in advance if not (having said that, there is no competition at this point, both exclusive at the time of posting):

SACD:

http://tower.jp/item/4443499/?????????????????????-??????

Download:

http://www.e-onkyo.com/music/album/uml00602557446593/

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[microstrip]

Not sure if I'm allowed to post direct links? Sorry in advance if not (having said that, there is no competition at this point, both exclusive at the time of posting):

SACD:

http://tower.jp/item/4443499/?????????????????????-??????

Download:

http://www.e-onkyo.com/music/album/uml00602557446593/

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Thanks, unfortunately they block me: This item is currently not available in your country due to licensing restrictions. Besides, I doubt I could order on a site in japanese, even using the google translator.

I could see that the recording is issued by Deutsche Grammophon GmbH - I was not aware of any connection between these labels, besides ECM being distributed in some countries by Universal Music Classics.

2017/04/07 >
(P) 1975 ECM Records GmbH, under exclusive license to Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin
(C) 2017 ECM Records GmbH, under exclusive license to Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin

 

[JackD201]

Shakti on this forum, who does regular shootout, told me that he prefers KR over Nat transmitter due to the midbass energy, while his friend prefers the NAT due to better fluidity. It is going to be give and take at these levels, coming down to speaker match and preference. NAT has a wider range of models though, different price points and sound from the SE1SE upwards to Magma will change.

Just installed the latest KR Preamp last night, the P 135. As someone familiar with the Lampi sound (my brother uses a GG) I can say it will surely float the boat of anybody that loves true triode sound. Since the KR 45 tubes are brand new and require a lot more hours of run in time before I can make a full assessment, Keith was kind enough to drop of some NOS Sylvania 45s. It was with the latter that I assessed the circuit's performance. Incredibly fast, full and layered while remaining very fluid. The tone is magically pure. It transformed the system whose amps are the baby Kronzilla KT120 amps. I will bring up the big daddy DX MkIIs shortly. I will also try rolling with a pair of RCA 45s and a pair of Cunninghams. Those looking to take their KR amps to the next level should absolutely try this very affordable (relatively ) little wonder pre. I am keeping this unit for myself and have ordered more. The caveat is that the output V is 1.5. For those with power amps whose input sensitivity requires more than this to reach full potential, I strongly, strongly recommend an in home audition first.

 

[bonzo75]

Just installed the latest KR Preamp last night, the P 135. As someone familiar with the Lampi sound (my brother uses a GG) I can say it will surely float the boat of anybody that loves true triode sound. Since the KR 45 tubes are brand new and require a lot more hours of run in time before I can make a full assessment, Keith was kind enough to drop of some NOS Sylvania 45s. It was with the latter that I assessed the circuit's performance. Incredibly fast, full and layered while remaining very fluid. The tone is magically pure. It transformed the system whose amps are the baby Kronzilla KT120 amps. I will bring up the big daddy DX MkIIs shortly. I will also try rolling with a pair of RCA 45s and a pair of Cunninghams. Those looking to take their KR amps to the next level should absolutely try this very affordable (relatively ) little wonder pre. I am keeping this unit for myself and have ordered more. The caveat is that the output V is 1.5. For those with power amps whose input sensitivity requires more than this to reach full potential, I strongly, strongly recommend an in home audition first.

Jack, you should try the special EML globe mesh anniversary 45 designed for Lampi. We Lampi guys mostly use KR valves - 242, Px25, Px4, and the KR special 5u4g recti...But the only non me valve in the stable is this 45. It is way superior to the KR 45 (which is much better than the regular EML 45). They are massive too.

Please ask your brother to try that in his GG, as well as me Px25 and 242. The last one, if it works, is a jump in multiples.

 

[Aries Cerat]

Hi Stavros


Thanks for chiming in and the nice comment about my view. I really do love it. Listening to good music with such a view is a privilege I greatly enjoy.

I really like the lovely, airy and highly resolving sound of the Diana but especially in my huge and rather bass light room, I'm missing some chest, where the Diana is lighter than my Kronzilla. In a smaller room, the Diana might show more of her wonderful pontential.

I'm not sure which tubes are in the Diana atm.
The driver tubes do indeed look rather dark blue compared to output tube the look rather black.
Maybe Brad can say which ones are inserted...

It's nice to "talk" to the designer of the gear directly. Thanks for that.

Cheers,
Christoph

Hello Christoph

Thanks for the reply.
You curently have installed the General Electric driver and input tubes.These are GE rebranded as Rca.you can tell them apart from the bluish matte colored plates.You should definetly try the RCA I have send Brad long ago.These are with dark blackened silver plates.I find them more "matcho" and heavier in sub 200Hz region.They are my personal favorites as well.

Try them as driver or input tubes.

Also It is unfortunate that you did not listen to the actual
original tuning /circuits of the Diana.The particular piece is to be brought back here to be re-modified to its original tuning.
As it is now the amp has much lower gain (that is why you used external preamp)and is tuned on the soft side.Some harsh horns would benefit from this tuning but not more neutral speakers like yours.

That is why we beta test.Some things go your way some not

Definetly try the RCAs that I have send.

All the Best
Stavros

 

[JackD201]

Jack, you should try the special EML globe mesh anniversary 45 designed for Lampi. We Lampi guys mostly use KR valves - 242, Px25, Px4, and the KR special 5u4g recti...But the only non me valve in the stable is this 45. It is way superior to the KR 45 (which is much better than the regular EML 45). They are massive too.

Please ask your brother to try that in his GG, as well as me Px25 and 242. The last one, if it works, is a jump in multiples.

Oh he has all the KRs. It would be crazy if he didn't right? . The Cunninghams are supposed to be the pinnacle of the 45 world. More so than the RCAs even. I'm looking forward to the comparisons.