Warning about Kyle of Reference Audio Mods

[RogerD]

This guy you dealt with (Kyle), he's history forever!

I lost big time a couple of times ($40,000 and $350,000).
The people who took advantage of the situation will meet their true fate eventually, if not already had!

I know exactly how you feel, and I'm glad you denounce this big imposter!
I hope he...

And the Heavens open up to all inflicted and deceived by money evil...

Hey Bob,

Some day these parasites will feel the wrath.....I hope to throw a few of these myself!

 

[NorthStar]

Wow, nice picture Roger! It depicts exactly how things should be for some people!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Yeah, but the faceplates look cool.

Tim

 

[Diamond007]

For anyone interested you can catch Kyle's act, doing his best tap dance routine over at this forum!

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566728/warning-about-kyle-of-reference-audio-mods/15

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Diamond, I only read one page of the exchange over on headfi, but it doesn't look like this has been a nightmare at every step, but an on-going building/tweaking project that had moments in which you were very happy with the system, moments of great disappointment, and moments when it was ok, but had some problems that needed sorting out. It would also appear that you've given your builder some money that you think should be returned, and have withheld some money that he thinks is still owed.

Hardly a clear story of right and wrong.

Folks around here can tell you I'm hardly one to defend "professional" tweakers, but what do you hope to gain by airing all of this publicly? If you have legal recourse, take it. But you can't ruin the reputation of someone who has none, and while these stories make him look incompetent, they're equally effective at making you look gullible. The first time you visited and found him working on your system in his mom's kitchen with inadequate tools was the moment of truth. You should have paid no more money from that point on, until the first component was delivered and tested (independently), and proved to perform at least as well as the manufacturer's component that he was mutilating. Actually, you should have visited his mom's kitchen and seen the tools and some of his "work," before you gave him the first dollar. Or better yet, you should have paid him $1000 to put competently designed and manufactured components in pretty wood boxes and given him a $500 bonus to leave the electronics untouched. But at this point? Time to cut your losses.

Tim

 

[FrantzM]

Diamond, I only read one page of the exchange over on headfi, but it doesn't look like this has been a nightmare at every step, but an on-going building/tweaking project that had moments in which you were very happy with the system, moments of great disappointment, and moments when it was ok, but had some problems that needed sorting out. It would also appear that you've given your builder some money that you think should be returned, and have withheld some money that he thinks is still owed.

Hardly a clear story of right and wrong.

Folks around here can tell you I'm hardly one to defend "professional" tweakers, but what do you hope to gain by airing all of this publicly? If you have legal recourse, take it. But you can't ruin the reputation of someone who has none, and while these stories make him look incompetent, they're equally effective at making you look gullible. The first time you visited and found him working on your system in his mom's kitchen with inadequate tools was the moment of truth. You should have paid no more money from that point on, until the first component was delivered and tested (independently), and proved to perform at least as well as the manufacturer's component that he was mutilating. Actually, you should have visited his mom's kitchen and seen the tools and some of his "work," before you gave him the first dollar. Or better yet, you should have paid him $1000 to put competently designed and manufactured components in pretty wood boxes and given him a $500 bonus to leave the electronics untouched. But at this point? Time to cut your losses.

Tim

+1

 

[mep]

Diamond, I only read one page of the exchange over on headfi, but it doesn't look like this has been a nightmare at every step, but an on-going building/tweaking project that had moments in which you were very happy with the system, moments of great disappointment, and moments when it was ok, but had some problems that needed sorting out. It would also appear that you've given your builder some money that you think should be returned, and have withheld some money that he thinks is still owed.

Hardly a clear story of right and wrong.

Folks around here can tell you I'm hardly one to defend "professional" tweakers, but what do you hope to gain by airing all of this publicly? If you have legal recourse, take it. But you can't ruin the reputation of someone who has none, and while these stories make him look incompetent, they're equally effective at making you look gullible. The first time you visited and found him working on your system in his mom's kitchen with inadequate tools was the moment of truth. You should have paid no more money from that point on, until the first component was delivered and tested (independently), and proved to perform at least as well as the manufacturer's component that he was mutilating. Actually, you should have visited his mom's kitchen and seen the tools and some of his "work," before you gave him the first dollar. Or better yet, you should have paid him $1000 to put competently designed and manufactured components in pretty wood boxes and given him a $500 bonus to leave the electronics untouched. But at this point? Time to cut your losses.

Tim

This is "kinda sorta" what I told him. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out who said it nicer.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

This is "kinda sorta" what I told him. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out who said it nicer.

I'll go back and read your post and let you know . By the way, I'm going to buy an envelope I need to send you something today. I'm slow, but I ain't dead yet.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Hmmm..."nicer?" I think it's pretty much a toss-up. Mine's definitely longer.

Tim

 

[es347]

Our search for the audio golden fleece causes some to do the inexplicable and this is pretty inexplicable. No offense intended diamond.

 

[JackD201]

What's the dirty laundry policy around here anyway?

 

[Gregadd]

From the movie Indecent Proposal:
Jeremy: [on the phone] Let me get this straight. He offered you a million dollars for a night with your wife? As in *your* wife Diana? And you agreed to it? I don't know what to say. How could you do something like that? *How could you negotiate without me?* Never negotiate without your lawyer. Never! For a woman like Diana I could have gotten you at least two million. Obviously, you don't want to get screwed, and then... screwed!
***
Share this quote
Jeremy: OK, David, before we go any further, let's get the moral issue out of the way.
David: Leave that to us.
Jeremy: No, I was referring to my fee. I get five percent.
Share this quote
[John Gage is reading through the contract drawn up by Jeremy]
Gage: Do you want to elaborate on the "Verification" clause?
Jeremy: Verification? That means you pay even if the relationship isn't consummated.
Gage: You mean if I'm impotent?
Jeremy: It's important for a lawyer to cover contingencies.
Gage: I can live with that. The "John Garfield" clause?
Jeremy: That's if you die in the act.
Gage: I have no problem with that either. Could I have your pen?... You're pretty good, you know.
Jeremy: Thank you.
***

Consultation with counsel could have resulted in an express warranty with a satisfaction guaranteed clause

 

[es347]

What's the dirty laundry policy around here anyway?

Apparently a bit different than that on the AC

 

[FrantzM]

This is "kinda sorta" what I told him. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out who said it nicer.

And you were correct as was/is Tim. I am bowing out, not much of a constructive issue; rather a private affair that both parties should have had an interest in solving without involving public fora.

Which make me think about this:
If a modder claims that measurements don't tell the whole story , how are the "results" to be objectively verified? Especially when the customer believes in such .. Oh I know!: upon sighted audition .. I was thinking about a case, where after sighted audition, the customer would claim of not hearing any difference or to no being satisfied and brings this to a Court Of Law

 

[audioguy]

Our search for the audio golden fleece causes some to do the inexplicable

That may be the most important truth out of this thread.

The only person that has really taken advantage of me in this regard is me. I've spent $47 bazillion on expensive power cords, interconnects and other "stuff" that moved me not one inch closer to musical truth.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Very intereting twist Frantz. However, what kind of contract did they actually have....verbal....
I wonder how these modders would do if presented with a contract that meant that the customer was satisfied with the end result, and warranty for a year for their work......bet they would flat turn you down.

Bringing a contract into the issue certainly airs expectations from both sides and when you are talking tens of thousands of dollars, wow...

Tom

Not all modders are crooks. Take Frank van Alastine for example. Frank's been around for decades and his work is highly respected. Remember the ARC SP3-A1 van alastine version? That preamp was the cat's meow back in its day. ARC even has a program to bring that preamp up to current specs with new parts, etc.

 

[RogerD]

Not all modders are crooks. Take Frank van Alastine for example. Frank's been around for decades and his work is highly respected. Remember the ARC SP3-A1 van alastine version? That preamp was the cat's meow back in its day. ARC even has a program to bring that preamp up to current specs with new parts, etc.

I don't know what people expect because modding can only improve equipment so much. I use the word improvement guardedly also. If the equipment has quality components,well designed and has a excellent grounding scheme,you really can't expect miracles. It is a crap shoot as changing things can actually degrade sound or at least produce the status quo. I would never spend thousands on a mod,period.

Do I mod my equipment yes. I only mod the equipment that I know can be improved and only making changes that have worked in the past. Have I done mods that have not worked,yes,and I have learned from that.

My advice, don't spend more than you can resell the equipment for and that limits your commitment and cuts your losses if it doesn't work out.

 

[RBFC]

Not all modders are crooks. Take Frank van Alastine for example. Frank's been around for decades and his work is highly respected. Remember the ARC SP3-A1 van alastine version? That preamp was the cat's meow back in its day. ARC even has a program to bring that preamp up to current specs with new parts, etc.

This ARC update program would infer that all the modifications performed by Van Alstine are identifiable and documented. IMO, if a modification company will not disclose what they are doing to a piece of equipment, then caveat emptor.

Lee

 

[NorthStar]

Our search for the audio golden fleece causes some to do the inexplicable and this is pretty inexplicable. No offense intended diamond.

The same is true in the world of automobile, housing, pharmaceutical, oil, trades (stock market and all), boating, etc...

 

[NorthStar]

"We live in a world full of crooks; the only problem is to get sucked into it!" - Bob