WBF Train Wrecks! Love em or hate em.

[garylkoh]

Peter, hope you have been well. Your post reminds me of the hysterical bit by the late great George Carlin. He said he could not understand rubbernecking and the need for drivers to slow down to check out horrific car accidents. He said it was some strange need to look at what repels us. He even said that it become so common place that they might have to call state troopers to a crash scene to bring the mangled bodies to rubbernecking motorists so they can get a good look and move on.

Awww.... I've been guilty of this reading the trainwreck threads. You mean that the mangled bodies will be removed quickly?

 

[Garth]

Awww.... I've been guilty of this reading the trainwreck threads. You mean that the mangled bodies will be removed quickly?

"If you know where they bodies are buried it will make you the guy in charge" Jimmy Hoffa

 

[marty]

Cordial discussion is always better than an argument.

This has to be the weirdest thread of the year. What’s upsetting is that I was away for a few days so I missed the contentious thread(s) which were removed so I can’t see what all the fuss was about. But I’m left with two main thoughts. First, I thought Steve’s earlier comments were particularly thoughtful, mature and reasonable. They also deeply reflected the seriousness which he takes in his role here as co-founder and moderator. Good job Steve.

Second, it really baffles me that we can’t be more like gentlemen at all times. In fact, its OK for gentlemen to disagree. And when they do, it is only proper for a certain decorum to prevail in the language we use between the disputing parties. In short, its OK to disagree and call someone an idiot. But how it’s done is the difference between civility and chaos. As an example, I edit a very prestigious scientific journal. Let me provide an example of a typical response that we might see in print among colleagues who have a fervent disagreement, while at the same time, provide a “street translation” that everyone really understands when they read the formal reply. It might go something like this:

“We read the article by Jones with keen interest. We respectfully point out that had Dr. Jones performed his analysis using a second order function instead of a first order function, his conclusion may have been different. In fact, we suspect that he would have agreed with us that the data do not support the presence of a quantum based force field on the planet Krypton. Perhaps Dr. Jones wishes to repeat his calculation in which he mistakenly used Avogadro’s number in error which prompted his ill-advised consideration for performing a first order analysis.”

That’s how it’s done politely, and in a socially acceptable manner. What the author really means however, is this:

“We suffered through that piece of crap article by Jones only because we had to so we could respond, which we are doing out of the obligation we owe the scientific community to expose Jones for the fraud that he is. Jones shows us clearly that he is nothing more than a idiot by making assumptions and performing calculations that any third grader would know is totally incorrect. And this guy is a tenured faculty member at Harvard? Gimme a break. And no need to respond to this letter Dr. Jones. We really don’t care what you think anyway.”

So next time you want to write a letter telling us how you really feel, I would encourage you to please consider Steve’s advice and reply to each other as gentlemen. Cordial discussion is the key as Treitz suggests.

Marty

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

This has to be the weirdest thread of the year. What’s upsetting is that I was away for a few days so I missed the contentious thread(s) which were removed so I can’t see what all the fuss was about. But I’m left with two main thoughts. First, I thought Steve’s earlier comments were particularly thoughtful, mature and reasonable. They also deeply reflected the seriousness which he takes in his role here as co-founder and moderator. Good job Steve.

Second, it really baffles me that we can’t be more like gentlemen at all times. In fact, its OK for gentlemen to disagree. And when they do, it is only proper for a certain decorum to prevail in the language we use between the disputing parties. In short, its OK to disagree and call someone an idiot. But how it’s done is the difference between civility and chaos. As an example, I edit a very prestigious scientific journal. Let me provide an example of a typical response that we might see in print among colleagues who have a fervent disagreement, while at the same time, provide a “street translation” that everyone really understands when they read the formal reply. It might go something like this:

“We read the article by Jones with keen interest. We respectfully point out that had Dr. Jones performed his analysis using a second order function instead of a first order function, his conclusion may have been different. In fact, we suspect that he would have agreed with us that the data do not support the presence of a quantum based force field on the planet Krypton. Perhaps Dr. jones wishes to repeat his calculation in which his mistakenly used Avagadro’s number in error which prompted his ill-advised consideration for performing a first order analysis.”

That’s how it’s done politely, and in a socially acceptable manner. What the author really means however, is this:

“We suffered through that piece of crap article by Jones only because we had to so we could respond, which we are doing out of the obligation we owe the scientific community to expose Jones for the fraud that he is. Jones shows us clearly that he is nothing more than a idiot by making assumptions and performing calculations that any third grader would know is totally incorrect. And this guy is a tenured faculty member at Harvard? Gimme a break. And no need to respond to this letter Dr. Jones. We really don’t care what you think anyway.”

So next time you want to write a letter telling us how you really feel, I would encourage you to please consider Steve’s advice and reply to each other as gentlemen. Cordial discussion is the key as Treitz suggests.

Marty

If there was a THANK YOU or LIKE option I'd apply it.

 

[TBone]

so I missed the contentious thread(s) which were removed so I can’t see what all the fuss was about.

No fuss really, just an uncovering of sorts ...

Most of his remarks are quoted by others, and you didn't miss anything he deleted, because his intent / hyper-prose were virtually identical along the way ... so once you've read one, you've read 'em all.

Again, my replies had more to do with the charlatan nature of the original posters claims and little to do with this over-hyped product. And remember, all I did was quote him in context, compared to the actual site, and its "testimonials".

He did the rest of the "digging" ...

And this "let's all act like gentleman stuff" doesn't really fly when verbally tangling with possible fraudulence. So, unless you really comprehend the "fuss" ... you can't possibly put this thread in it's proper perspective.

We should just move on ...

 

[treitz3]

<snip>....We should just move on....

TBone, with all due respect....please follow your own words. We got it, you got it, move on to better and brighter things like listening to music. The point has been made and duly noted. Speaking of points, nice post Marty.

Tom

 

[Brian Walsh]

And I can assure you that as a Mod on another forum, nothing is more unpleasant than having to issue suspensions or bans...especially those members with whom you've developed a more personal relationship. I had to do exactly that just yesterday.

Sometimes it's necessary. Although it's very rare for me to cite Biblical passages, in this instance Matthew 5:29 seems relevant. You needn't be religious to appreciate the analogy and the message.

 

[BlueFox]

Many times I like the train wreck threads. There is something interesting about watching people argue over trivial things. I sometimes think it is genetic, since we all are guilty of doing this occasionally.

 

[Bodhi]

Seriously though, we DO have a number of guys here that personally I kind of cringe before even reading their posts. Some are fan boys, some always seem to inject their current "angle" or "thing" into ANY thread, some have a knack for painting everything black or white. I read on anyway because it isn't like they are wrong ALL the time. If anything the frustrating part is when the feeling is you aren't allowed to defend yourself. We as moderators always try to allow both sides to present their sides and let the readership be the judge.

...You forgot those who self-sabotage their own threads by requesting the thread be shut down in order to undermine opinion about another member and avoid scrutiny.

 

[rockitman]

I have had some pretty interesting threads that I started shut down here prematurely because of poor behavior of participants in the thread....the participants should have been cautioned instead of the thread being shutdown. I also contacted a forum moderator in the past to re-start a thread and got no response one way or the other except silence. Kind of lost interest in starting threads and other stuff here since then and some other things that don't matter anymore....

You mean threads like..."you analog heads love distorted playback or stereo reproduction sucks and binaural is best" ?

 

[treitz3]

I also contacted a forum moderator in the past to re-start a thread and got no response one way or the other except silence.

Tom, poor behavior by members is not acceptable here. Cordial discussion is. Silence by the admin and mods doesn't mean we are not listening. With that said, please take the hint that some of your "interesting threads" are construed by others as inflammatory (especially in the way questions asked are answered). Every time someone sends a PM to Steve, Amir or any of the other members of the management team please do not expect an answer. Many times, for every reported post one way has 3 or 4 reported posts the other way. Our job is to see that the middle ground reaches the readers of the forum and that we not get in the middle of it.

If we answered every reported post, answered every request and appeased every wish from forum members here?......

As a management team, we work as a team. Don't expect to contact one person and expect to get your way. The team decides what is best and only what is best for the forum. Not individuals.

Tom

 

[TBone]

Tom, poor behavior by members is not acceptable here. Cordial discussion is. Silence by the admin and mods doesn't mean we are not listening. With that said, please take the hint that some of your "interesting threads" are construed by others as inflammatory (especially in the way questions asked are answered). Every time someone sends a PM to Steve, Amir or any of the other members of the management team please do not expect an answer. Many times, for every reported post one way has 3 or 4 reported posts the other way. Our job is to see that the middle ground reaches the readers of the forum and that we not get in the middle of it.

If we answered every reported post, answered every request and appeased every wish from forum members here?......

As a management team, we work as a team. Don't expect to contact one person and expect to get your way. The team decides what is best and only what is best for the forum. Not individuals.

Tom

In my short time here, some of the moderation has been questionable at best. Consider that constructive criticism. Nearly every site has these issues, and you learn along the way ...

 

[Steve williams]

In my short time here, some of the moderation has been questionable at best. Consider that constructive criticism. Nearly every site has these issues, and you learn along the way ...

I can tell you in no uncertain terms that those days are over. You have already seen changes here in the past several days with member(s) who have been read the riot act and my perusal of the board since seems to reflect some calm and quiet except from you TBone who just won't let sleeping dogs lie. I suggest you read and re-read my reply because I tire very easily of those trying to fan the flames and/or those of you you who put up threads who know from the outset that not only have the same issues been debated ad nauseum and so also the mods will not reply to your closed thread complaints.

Today is Monday. I trust for the sake of the board the usual suspects have gotten my message loud and clear. Changes have been made and depending on what all of you get out of this thread will predicate any future changes involving those offenders.

Several days ago I quoted an old saying from Spock........

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few which outweigh the needs of the one."

There are some here who use this board as their personal stepping stone to be rude, put down members and to champion their own beliefs. They have been warned many times before and frankly they have been told that should their conduct and behavior persist no further warnings will be issued but rather administrative bans. Trust me gentlemen when I say there will be peace on this board. If you don't believe it I ask then who will launch their final salvo, because that is what it will be here at WBF.

To those who always start the same thread disguised with different words for the sake of restarting the same argument, I say think again and to those of you who feel the urge to continue to insult and degrade other members, I strongly encourage you to think again.

If you think this is fun for the admin team ,this has been nothing but unnecessary work however our sights are so zoned in on the offending individuals that you can be certain that they will only get the chance to offend one last time here

I trust my message is loud and clear

 

[TBone]

I can tell you in no uncertain terms that those days are over. You have already seen changes here in the past several days with member(s) who have been read the riot act and my perusal of the board since seems to reflect some calm and quiet except from you TBone who just won't let sleeping dogs lie.

sleeping dogs eventually wake, without my assistance.

Anyway, the fact that my above post wasn't deleted (which I fully expected) invites further discussion.

I'll take this offline and offer a very brief PM later. No need to answer back.

anthony

 

[Steve williams]

sleeping dogs eventually wake, without my assistance.

Anyway, the fact that my above post wasn't deleted (which I fully expected) invites further discussion.

I'll take this offline and offer a very brief PM later. No need to answer back.

anthony

Thank you Anthony. I appreciate that

 

[andromedaaudio]

You and steve deserve a medal for patience

The 4% think the 96% are ignorant and wrong. LOL.

Seriously though, we DO have a number of guys here that personally I kind of cringe before even reading their posts. Some are fan boys, some always seem to inject their current "angle" or "thing" into ANY thread, some have a knack for painting everything black or white. I read on anyway because it isn't like they are wrong ALL the time. If anything the frustrating part is when the feeling is you aren't allowed to defend yourself. We as moderators always try to allow both sides to present their sides and let the readership be the judge.

I do wish the fan boys, preachers and judge n' juries would exercise some thoughtful restraint. I also do wish that those excited by new finds do the same with their epiphanies.

If there is something I've learned about moderating forums for over a decade, it is the LANGUAGE that causes problems seldom the message itself.

 

[JackD201]

You'll be surprised at the miracles taking one very deep breath can accomplish. LOL.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Exactly but .... whats the fun in mediocre stuff anyway , but i also agree with rbbert

Yes it's called a product in search of a market!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You'll be surprised at the miracles taking one very deep breath can accomplish. LOL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/y...-before-you-hit-send.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.kidpower.org/library/article/email-safety/

http://thinkingoutsidethesandbox.ca/hit-send-email-tips-clear-positive-communication/

etc.

etc.

etc.

i'm not claiming any high road for myself.......i've had to eat crow and apologize a few times.

 

[JackD201]

Great links Mike. This should be required reading.

Yeah, I think we've all blown our tops at one time or another and will likely do so again. That's different from being a **** by habit though! LOL!