Went from 5 foot roof TV antenna mast to 10 foot and now no signal

[kach22i]

UPDATE

Old Thread in this forum 11 months ago:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12796-Antenna-s-VHF-UHF-HDTV-and-FM

I'm doing a cut & paste of another thread in another forum - see below, it's been a little bit helpful.
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15018

Just under a year ago I installed a HD Stacker antenna from Denny's, eave mount with standard 5-foot mast/pole kit. It barely cleared the 10/12 pitch roof but I got many more stations than basic cable and a lot better picture/sound too.

Link to kit:
http://store03.prostores.com/servle...re/the-222/HD-Stacker-Installation-Kit/Detail

This weekend I decided to install a 10-foot pole I picked up earlier in the year. The only change needed was a longer RG6 coaxial cable coming from the outdoor 300/75 ohm transformer strapped to the antenna to the end peak/eave bottom of pole located Winegard LNA 200 preamplifier.

PROBLEM: I have no signal.

Dumb Moves:
While removing the old cable from the 300/75 ohm transformer, the small lead wires to the antenna snapped off the binding posts - frayed by weather I suppose.

Compound Problem: one of the terminal bolts which the outdoor 300/75 ohm transformer ties into spins. I had over tighten this last year but everything worked. I used long nose vice grips to lock the bolt in place at the top and bottom points, then it was easy to turn the locking nut off.

Solutions -1 & 2:
I soldered longer 300 ohm lead wires and clips on the transformer run, still no signal. I put new clips directly on the 300 ohm wires, still no signal. Then I bought a new $6.00 Radio Shack 300/75 ohm outdoor transformer with some nice looking lead wires, still no signal.

Solutions - 3 & 4
I tried a variety of RG6 coaxial cable runs (antenna to preamp), all tested out fine on the Multi-Meter. In fact I put my Multi-Meter everyplace I thought a signal should be passing and got good continuity readings including the antenna posts themselves.

Solution - 5
I disconnected and reconnected the remote power supply in my basement for the pre-amp to no effect, still no signal.

Solution - 6
Tried other TV's in the house, tried searching for new signal though the TV, still no signal.

Next time your think that you can do a little better, and maybe reach for the stars, remember this story. Sometimes sleeping dogs should be left to lay.

I'm open to suggestions on what to try next.

I'd hate to think the preamp just happened to die because it was moved a little. It was not banged or dropped, just dangled safely from the eave. All connections to it have been redone to insure they have not loosened up.

I'm stumped.
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I just tried by-passing the preamp, still no signal.

I just tried changing the cable (12-foot presealed) from the preamp to the 75/300 ohm outdoor transformer, still no signal.

Guy at the local hardware store was supportive, and said there is nothing inside the antenna connection where the transformer hooks up like a soldered connection, it's basically what you see is what it is - all external.

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Just tried a SnapAV 12 foot RG6 coaxial cable which a local audio store put together for me with some nice terminations. Placed between the outdoor preamp and the 300/75 ohm balun. Still no luck with getting a signal.

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To clarify on the "by-pass" procedure, I physically disconnected the preamp, put a male to male coupler on, and connected the antenna cable to the cable going into the house via the coupler.

I did this with the "power inserter" in the basement still on (because I forgot all about it), and the splitter in the basement still in-line with all the TV's hooked up to it. I thought at least a few of the stronger signals should get through, but nothing did.

I will unplug the "power inserter" when trying a new by-pass test later today (weather permitting).

If the by-pass later today works, I will replace the 300/75 balun (again) when installing a new preamp and line inserter power supply.

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I unplugged the inserter preamp power unit in the basement, watched the little green light fade away.

I then went up the ladder to the preamp on the pole and using a male/male coupler tied the in and out together, thereby by-passing the preamp.

Still no signal.

There is a chance the replacement 300/75 balun from Radio Shack was burnt out according to Stereocraig's comment if used in the previous powered up by-pass attempt. I frankly don't recall if that new unit was in place during that test, or the old one, so I'm off to the store to spend another six dollars.

EDIT
New cable and transformer made no difference, by-pass with power down also still no signal.
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I bit the bullet and purchased another Winegard LNA 200 preamplifier for $55.

Installed it and the new power supply, still no signal.

Then the one connection which I've never messed with, the one which connects the preamp to the cable going into the house I redid, most likely the best job of one I've ever done, still no signal. And yes I took the precaution of unplugging the power supply in the basement before and after each change and or work done.

How can an antenna go bad?

That's the only thing I'm really left with isn't it?
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I tried calling Denny's TV twice and sent a detailed email................that was days ago and no response.

I'll try again today. (just a recording again)

My only idea left is to by-pass the recommended connection to the antenna, and try one of the other contact points. I would suspect a loss of some signal by abandoning the lower array, but if I get any signal at all at this point I'll be somewhat relieved.

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Still no one picking up the phone at Denny's, this is typically the case sad to say.

This is my latest idea of a "by-pass".



That one connection spins upon tightening, but I have it tight.

The binding post above it on the next tier connects it all together via "u" shaped metal each side of the main square tube.
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I tried that different type of by-pass or TV antenna connection point...........still no signal.

I redid a bunch of connections on the antenna plus double checked the in-line ones too, to no affect.

I positioned the antenna to the original NE vector just in case there was an anomaly true east.

Photos of the failed experiment.

http://s184.photobucket.com/user/kach22i/library/MISC?sort=3&page=1

Before:


After:


Different angle:


When I was done finding out that there was still no signal I switched it all back to the original set up.

By any chance, should I unplug my TV and power it down to reset it? All I'm thinking is that perhaps once I stopped the signal by moving to a taller pole/mast, some recognition software glitch ensued.
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I unplugged the TV, made no difference, still no signal.

I have not done a fresh direct wire from antenna to TV with no ground block, boosters/preamp or splitters in the path.

Is that the next step, or have I missed something?

 

[zztop7]

Sometimes life is just not fair. I sincerely empathize. Try hooking up rabbit ears to see what happens; I am not kidding. Then slowly working outwards with as few pieces as possible.
I wish you the best on this conundrum.
zz.

 

[Matt193]

Bummer! Have you tried running a piece of coax from the antenna to a TV without the preamp in the mix? You may even want to try a fresh piece if you have one. I'm assuming that when you check continuity on your coax that you checked to make sure you don't have continuity between the center conductor and the shield when not hooked up to anything?

 

[kach22i]

Running fresh wire is on my list.

Checked and replaced many wires as intermitent shorts do happen.

Last item mentioned is note worthy, as I did check the clearences of the metal along the main spar, close but no contact.

On a bright note, I have been playing quality programs on the TV though the computer and Bluray player which normaly would not have.

 

[amirm]

Wow, that is quite a story!

Here is what I would do.

1. Check to make sure your TV is still OK. Were you able to pick up super strong stations without the rooftop antenna before? In our area religious stations that I don't want to watch come in almost without an antenna . Double check the TV to make sure it is configured for over the air signal and not QAM, etc.

2. Can you disconnect the antenna easily? If so, do so and bring it down near the TV (but still outside). Hook a short piece of coax to it, through the transformer and to the TV. Then move it around by hand and see if you pick up anything. Trying to rule out the wiring that goes through the building as the cause.

3. If not, then go to a local store that accepts returns and buy some other antenna. These things are cheap so it should only set you back $50 or so even if you did not return it.

 

[audioarcher]

Sounds frustrating. Try hooking up a portable TV to the line before the splitter. That way you can rule the splitter out. It's not likely the splitter but you never know. If there are any butt (male to male) connectors you have not changed out yet I would do so.

 

[audioarcher]

I would also buy a cable toner like this http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PVPT2.

You can find them at most home improvement stores. It will not tone through a splitter but will tone through a butt connector. I would not try to tone through an amp either. It will tell you if you are getting a signal through the lines though. Also if you buy one be sure to pick up an extra butt connector so you can send the signal through a coax cable that is not connected to a wall plate.

 

[kach22i]

UPDATE: 11/16/15

Ha, I went a year with one of those in the window antennas. A hand full of channels, but between Crackle on my DVD/Bluray player, the public library's DVD/Bluray collection and hooking my computer up to my plasma TV, I really didn't suffer much.

I let my demons lay n' wait, and last week found the problem in like five minutes.

The big coil of coaxial cable I bought last year was put into use as a by-pass jumper.

Went from the antenna post mounted preamp, to the lightning arrester (my longest run) - and that was that - it worked.

I then loosened the last few cable connections just prior to the lightning arrester jack, and re-did the connection (new fitting) for at least the 6th time.

Near as I can figure it, the connection was cocked just a little too much (90 degree bend) and was shorting. Happenstance (the Devil's work) it went out while working on the other end when changing out the 5-foot pole for a 10-foot pole.

Mind you that when this end was removed for testing with a tester everything showed up fine because the tension was released to disconnect for the tester.

Mystery solved, patience required.

 

[Ronm1]

Good to hear and fine t/s'g. Certainly a pita, though. Did image quality improve enough and,or channel count increase to be worth effort.

 

[kach22i]

Good to hear and fine t/s'g. Certainly a pita, though. Did image quality improve enough and,or channel count increase to be worth effort.

Leave well enough alone, and you will never improve, and never learn what is possible..............but it could cost you (me) our sanity.

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." Famous quotes for five hundred Alex.

This time around I grounded the pole/mast of the antenna, then did an auto-scan for channels.

This is what allowed me to really get in Ch 9 out of Canada in most clearly.

There was still a little intermittent scramble prior to those last steps.

I have gained more channels than I have lost by rotating the antenna 45 degrees (to true East), and raising it five feet. If I rotated the antenna back north 45 degrees I would get in a different set of channels, but I wanted the CBC/CH-9, grew up with it.

I do not miss QVC, HSN and other shopping networks which God bless no longer come in. Speaking of God, I get more religious networks than ever, could it be a sign?

WALD a Detroit station (normal good/fair programming - once had Star Trek Next Generation on it) comes in sometimes, other times it doesn't, used to come in all the time two years ago.

I get over six new stations now, don't know if they have come on-line in the last two years or the extra height/grounding/redirection are the cause.

It is what it is, live and learn.

A big part of me wishes I never messed with it.

Another part of me is planning a dedicated FM roof antenna on the other peak/ridge of the house to use up the roll of cable I have. I came within seconds of ordering some round disc and mast just a few days ago, would have set me back just $20 for the whole thing, but I have to get other work done, it will wait till spring.

My live TV watching days are mostly behind me, being able to pause a program to make popcorn or take a bathroom break as Internet watching allows has spoiled me.

EDIT
The radius of the coaxial cable leading to the lightening arrester may have been too tight, and the resulting tension was part of the problem, about 50%.

 

[Matt193]

That's great to hear that you figured it out. So many times these types of threads never get updated when the issue is found. Don't fret too much over signal strength as the atmosphere and weather plays a much larger role when trying to pull in a signal from far away. My signals can vary as much as 50% due to sun spots, weather, ect..

 

[Don Hills]

... My live TV watching days are mostly behind me, being able to pause a program to make popcorn or take a bathroom break as Internet watching allows has spoiled me. ...

Most cheap DVRs (Digital VCRs) have a "pause live" mode - they automatically record up to the last hour or so of whatever you're watching live. You can press Pause when you want to take a break. And when you come back, you usually have enough time backed up that you can fast-forward through the next few ad breaks...