Cellulase for cleaning mold from vinyl records

[bibliojim]

Jim:

Did this "guy" specify the concentrations he was using. If not, his data is at best skeptical; other than the Triton X100 may help to keep the insoluble Tergitol 15-S-3 in solution. Keep in mind without a soluble emulsifying surfactant, Tergitol 15-S-3 that has no CMC is immiscible in water. Note that some history of the development of Tergikleen is discussed in Section IX.9.

Take care,
Neil

I'm sure he did say the concentration. I'll see if I can find that again, some other time.

You say, "immiscible". From the Web: "immiscible means two substances are unable to mix or combine to form a homogeneous mixture. When two immiscible substances are shaken together, they will eventually separate into layers." Tergikleen does not separate into two layers. Did you mean, "insoluble"?

Dow says this about 15-S-3:

• Rapid dissolution even in cold water

Dow 15-S-3

I know it is not soluble, I just don't want to introduce confusion. Dow is not saying "dissolves rapidly in cold water." The phrase "rapid dissolution" can mean something else, and apparently must. I know there have been discussions about this in other threads and don't mean to start yet another.

Good thought, but in this case the guy did NOT use them both at the same time, he used one, then compared the sound against a record cleaned with the other.

Yes, maybe he got different results because using different multiples of the CMC. Now that I understand about that, I'll want to see if that's the case.

 

[Neil.Antin]

You say, "immiscible". From the Web: "immiscible means two substances are unable to mix or combine to form a homogeneous mixture. When two immiscible substances are shaken together, they will eventually separate into layers." Tergikleen does not separate into two layers. Did you mean, "insoluble"?

Dow says this about 15-S-3:

• Rapid dissolution even in cold water

Dow 15-S-3

I know it is not soluble, I just don't want to introduce confusion. Dow is not saying "dissolves rapidly in cold water." The phrase "rapid dissolution" can mean something else, and apparently must. I know there have been discussions about this in other threads and don't mean to start yet another.

Jim:

If you read the 15-S-3 Technical Data Sheet - https://www.dow.com/documents/119/119-01944-01-tergitol-15s3-surfactant-tds.pdf?iframe=true it clearly shows the product is insoluble in water as does their overall surfactant reference document - https://www.dow.com/documents/119/119-01491-01-dow-surfactants-selection-guide.pdf?iframe=true. Pretty sure the DOW page you reference is in error. The dissolution in cold water is for the other Tergitols, 15-S-7 and higher. As I said the for Tergikleen, the 15-S-9 also acts to emulsify the 15-S-3 and keep it in solution as an emulsification.

Yes, maybe he got different results because using different multiples of the CMC.

Assuming his concentrations were high enough to >CMC. But different multiples of the CMC would have little difference provided they were greater than or equal to 3XCMC. But using Triton X100 alone could have a benefit over Tergikleen since there would no co-emulsification burden of the 15-S-3, so the if concentration >CMC then the full benefits of the micelles and their detergency would be obtained.

Take care,
Neil