What amp/ preamp has the fastest transients?

[mep]

I never said it was moronic. Yammering, yes. I just find you painful to read. I'm sure it's just me.

 

[Nicholas Bedworth]

But that's not half as painful as meeting me in person.

 

[garylkoh]

Jack, it depends on the caps and the signal levels, especially in power amps. Large electrolytics have fairly high series resistance (plus self-inductance) and thus are "slow" (though many if not most cut off above the audio band) so we (designers) add smaller, "faster" caps. How many, how good, and what size is a function of cost and how long they need to provide charge until the bigger caps "catch up". So, with no bypassing, transients will quickly get "snubbed" since big caps can't provide fast charge. With some smaller caps added, transients will fare much better but eventually charge must come from the larger caps (and then the wall).

I guess that's a long way of saying "it matters, but it's complicated".

Good question! - Don

Jack, check out the 6moons review of the way I implemented a similar solution to the one mentioned by Don.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/genesis5/reference_5.html

 

[Nicholas Bedworth]

Audio Magic liquid conductor cables were hugely beneficial in the transient department, both for the amps and DACs. www.audio-magic.com. Very nice fellow there, by the way, Jerry Ramsey.

 

[JackD201]

So in what order are the caps charged in order to more or less maintain a stable base load and draw wise which gets drawn from first? Sorry if I'm borrowing the term from the power company. I don't really know how else to express it.

 

[DonH50]

Jack, check out the 6moons review of the way I implemented a similar solution to the one mentioned by Don.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/genesis5/reference_5.html

Of course, Gary's wonderfully clean solution is the reason I am not about to post any pictures of my homebrew schemes!!!

 

[DonH50]

So in what order are the caps charged in order to more or less maintain a stable base load and draw wise which gets drawn from first? Sorry if I'm borrowing the term from the power company. I don't really know how else to express it.

The small ones will charge and discharge first, though it is the load current we are concerned with, not charging them from the power supply. All the caps have >120 Hz self-resonant frequency ("bandwidth") and so charge about equally fast from a linear power supply; There may be differences with switching power supplies, but it is unlikely you will hear the order in which the caps charge.

All IMO! - Don

 

[JackD201]

Aaaaaaaaah, so the bigger caps become the "back up source" for the smaller ones and that's why Gary had staggered values. As I understand it this is a case of size not being everything! Hahaha. Thanks Don, perhaps one day I'll be able to appreciate a layout by looking at it.

Baby steps, baby steps

 

[garylkoh]

Correct, and that is why when we consider amps with the fastest transients, you have to be careful that speed does not swamp body and richness in tone. You can make a power amp with an incredible number of tiny, fast caps and it still won't sound dynamic. The toughest music to test this with is dynamic piano music.

 

[JackD201]

Got it Bring on the Bartok!

 

[egidius]

The perception of speed is weird; when I play or go to a concert, it would not occur to me to question the speed with which a sound enfolds, because thats what it is, sound is spreading, sometimes slowly sometimes quirky, sometimes yellow, sometimes and now i could go all esoteric..

I have heard Spectral being extremely fast (unfortunately they did not match the speakers, thin sounding) I have heard the Berning ZH270 equally fast and a perfect match (Merlin Mxe), funnily the ZH230 does not strike me as equally agile, even though it has got slightly richer colors.

Conrad Johnson Premier 11 and even more Mv50 touched me in their comfortable speed; but then, you would say a Maserati is maybe faster round the curve than a Bentley - which do you prefer??