First, we set up an empty room for a suitable response, then you move the chairs and speakers to get the best response. Sometimes you move the chair a few inches, sometimes the speakers. I dare say it doesn't have to be 100% symmetrical.
If its not symmetrical, why wouldn't side wall reflectuons arrive at different times and smear the sound.
When do you add the room treatments? Some peoples rooms are built with bass traps and diffuser in the walls. Others have a empty room.
I would venture a guess, room treatments are as, if not more important than perfect positioning of speaker and chair. The best rooms I have heard are purpose built and have a variety of treatments. The worst are a living room and one puropae built room that the owner decided not to purchase and install the ASC devices specified to fit the space. Serious echo and slap distortion as well as lacking bass and too much mid/high energy. No amount of speaker and chair positioning would fix it. Total disaster.
Rex, I don’t think it is as easy as you conclude. I would propose that in most dedicated - rectangular rooms, Listening position and speaker placement are the most important steps in finding the right sound. Room treatments come next.
In irregular rooms, say multipurpose L shape rooms, I could see how both steps might be equal OR one being more important than another. I just think you can make definitive statements on what is most important.
Every room setup is about tradeoffs.
That is why there are experts who make good money optimizing systems/rooms.
Rex, I don’t think it is as easy as you conclude. I would propose that in most dedicated - rectangular rooms, Listening position and speaker placement are the most important steps in finding the right sound. Room treatments come next.
In irregular rooms, say multipurpose L shape rooms, I could see how both steps might be equal OR one being more important than another. I just think you can make definitive statements on what is most important.
Every room setup is about tradeoffs.
That is why there are experts who make good money optimizing systems/rooms.
Did I say setup is easy? I think its super hard. I was asking how much room treatments play into setup. I doubt its only about the chair location and speaker location/positioning.
Did I say setup is easy? I think its super hard. I was asking how much room treatments play into setup. I doubt its only about the chair location and speaker location/positioning.
I was reacting to your preposition that room treatments were equal if not more important than positioning of your seat and the speakers - only making the point that IMHO, it’s not that simple.
Did I say setup is easy? I think its super hard. I was asking how much room treatments play into setup. I doubt its only about the chair location and speaker location/positioning.
It is also about speaker typology and speaker orientation. One must be careful choosing the system. A lot goes into it and almost every room that I have heard with audiophile acoustic treatments is over treated, and thus sounds lifeless. I often hear a lack of energy, nuance and ambience. Information on the recording gets lost and can’t be retrieved. The best rooms I have heard manage energy for a more natural presentation and do not absorb or remove much of that energy.
I was reacting to your preposition that room treatments were equal if not more important than positioning of your seat and the speakers - only making the point that IMHO, it’s not that simple.
ahh. I get what you mean. I agree to that sentiment. It may be a lot of people fight a bad room and would have a much easier time getting good sound if they addressed some room issues. I have always used a couple first reflection devices on side walls. As well as some carpet on the floor. One of the biggest bass gains as raising the speaker 9 inches off the floor. I assume it had to do with floor bounce.
It is also about speaker typology and speaker orientation. One must be careful choosing the system. A lot goes into it and almost every room that I have heard with audiophile acoustic treatments is over treated, and thus sounds lifeless. I often hear a lack of energy, nuance and ambience. Information on the recording gets lost and can’t be retrieved. The best rooms I have heard manage energy for a more natural presentation and do not absorb or remove much of that energy.
I was installing insulation at my house and filled my room with it to see what happened. Just playing around. I got it overdamped and heard that suck out. Otherwise I haven't been to a house with a nice system and noticed the room was overdamped. The rooms that I have been in that have intentional treatments sound fantastic. Think Mike, Marty, Rhapsody Portland, Jazdoc, Bob Tacoma.
I think room treatments have come a long ways. Bob uses all ASC. Many are set as diffusers. Its not just about absorption. I use to have a fagot of willow stick I would sit right next to the front outside edge of my Sonus Faber. It was great at breaking up the side reflections and getting rid of smear. They don't work with open baffle. But I currently have a 4 inch rigid fiberglass panel that sits about 12 inches from the wall at the first sidereflection that helps immensely. I have used it for years. It needs to be replaced with a better product. Its a simple home made device.
I think all systems need some amount of appropriate treatments. I have no idea if they will make placement of seat and speakers easier or harder or no impact outside making the room play better overall.
Did I say setup is easy? I think its super hard. I was asking how much room treatments play into setup. I doubt its only about the chair location and speaker location/positioning.
It's a total system thing; source, electronics, speakers, cabling and room!
Room dimensions conducive to good sound gives one a leg up. Proper location of listener and speakers makes a difference!
As far as room treatment I am a believer but the worst rooms I have heard are the ones that have been over treated. Usually in an attempt to treat a space that was to small and/or poorly dimensioned. So it may not be just a question of what treatment but how they are used.
In an attempt to to smooth out what I felt was a bass issue I auditioned with the encouragement of a local dealer some custom bass traps. Feeling that they were having a positive influence I ordered a pair customized for my corners, the pair I auditioned were not full height. The new traps made things sound different and I found myself repositioning the speakers to find that right spot. Long story short I found what I thought was a better placement but for a good part of a year I had a little niggle in my mind and often jiggled my speakers around. In between I had upgraded my speakers but the niggle remained. Finally one day a friend was over and on a whim I decided to remove the corner bass traps. When I turned on my system the effect was immediate, my jaw dropped and my friend said I've never heard your speakers sounds this good. The traps were quite literally sucking the life out of the sound! Probably very good for a small concert hall but not appropriate for my room.
Lessons learned. There are lots of room treatments available; it's OK to experiment but know what you are purchasing and when in doubt seek out some real expertise. It may not be available from your dealer or even from just any acoustician, it should be someone experienced with music system reproduction in small rooms.
