What's Best? Soulution, CH Precision, Vitus, or Ayre?

[bonzo75]

@bonzo75
How would you attribute the excellent tone of the pilium to the two paths you described in the following post (admittedly several years ago)?



Is Pilium more full bodied or more clean and transparent (whereby I do not want to claim that a full bodied playing amp could not also be transparent - but we certainly know what was meant by transparent here).

I have not compared Vitus masterpiece, while I have heard mainly the Pilium higher models. That said I have never made direct compare of the Pilium to any amp. But I would say they are very different sounds. I can listen to chamber music on both so no tonal issue there. You could like one or the other or both. Both can drive hard to drive speakers. I have heard all pilium on four different speakers now.

I think transparency with solid state depends more on what you use for audition. Whether you want digital or poor recordings tone to be massaged or you have good recordings to keep things clean.

With Vitus I do not like their preamp as much it is very slow. Their strength is phono and amps. So Pilium, Soulution, CH, audionet have better preamps (I haven’t compared pilium but heard very good reports of the preamp, and Rhapsody can arrange various compares with top Valve as well). The budgets for the preamps vary so you want to take that into account depending on whether you want to add whole chain or just one component.

 

[Verdier]

I meant more the house sound - I suppose Pilium is not so much on the organic line, right?

 

[bonzo75]

I meant more the house sound - I suppose Pilium is not so much on the organic line, right?

oh it is quite organic. No difference there with Vitus, though a different sound. It will depend more on your recordings than the house sound. If you have not good digital or poor LPs you need more house sound to colour.

all these are good solid state amps, some buyers might prefer more than one or some just one of them. They sound quite different.

 

[itay123]

I would be happy to answer from my experience with PILIUM in the last two years,

I find PILIUM very clear, pure, and flowing, very "liquid", completely transparent, very natural to what was recorded, whether it is the tone of the recording, the dynamic of the recording, the drive of the recording and the energy of the recording.

 

[Audire]

With Vitus I do not like their preamp as much it is very slow. Their strength is phono and amps. So Pilium, Soulution, CH, audionet have better preamps (I haven’t compared pilium but heard very good reports of the preamp, and Rhapsody can arrange various compares with top Valve as well). The budgets for the preamps vary so you want to take that into account depending on whether you want to add whole chain or just one component.

Very slow? You need to come by for a visit one day Bonzo. The Roadrunner has something for you to listen too.

Vitus has a different strategy of presentational interpretation. Vitus MP Pre doesn’t hurry things up like the artist is trying to finish the song to collect their check. Vitus uses a more natural approach. It properly manages the sound so one can hear all the detail in the music. The eloquence and majesty of the sound transcends what we heard with other pres - including CH, Solution, EMM, Pass, etc. But we didn’t compare Pilium or Audionet,

In a 2017 review it was stated:

The Vitus Masterpiece system, as a whole, was “my TUTOR“. They allowed the vocalist’s expression be heard at a PRaT that every nuance was clearly heard with a start and a finish. I got to enjoy the artistry and tone(s) of the vocalist’s pronunciation of every word in the lyric…the (d)emphasis of one word over the other, or one noun over the other, the pause between words, the breathing, etc…that summed up a sentence, or lyric to a song,…the sensation of a talent show’s judge?!

Vitus Masterpiece Review Part 1, MP-M201, MP-L201 and MP-P201

Of course it’s been 6 years since that review and things have even gotten better.

This said, everyone’s tastes aren’t the same. Some will prefer one sound while someone else will prefer another. It’s all very subjective.

 

[bonzo75]

Well I think Vitus pre is slow. On classical. I like preamp to be clean, transparent, fast, and allow recording ambience to be heard. For example I don’t like Soulution amp but I like their preamp and the 720 is a bargain in the used market. it might not play that well with Vitus amp but is great in Valve based systems. The L10 was slightly better than the Soulution 725 pre on similar lines in a CH based system. The owner had the 725, and the older CH pre, then upgraded to L10.

this is why Verdier needs to consider his whole chain strategy

 

[morricab]

Well I think Vitus pre is slow. On classical. I like preamp to be clean, transparent, fast, and allow recording ambience to be heard. For example I don’t like Soulution amp but I like their preamp and the 720 is a bargain in the used market. it might not play that well with Vitus amp but is great in Valve based systems. The L10 was slightly better than the Soulution 725 pre on similar lines in a CH based system. The owner had the 725, and the older CH pre, then upgraded to L10.

this is why Verdier needs to consider his whole chain strategy

One man's clean, transparent, fast is another man's lean, threadbare and bright. All Soulution systems I have ever heard had that characteristic. Sadly, so did the Clarisys system in Munich. Your claim with tube amps is based on pairing with which tube amps?

 

[bonzo75]

One man's clean, transparent, fast is another man's lean, threadbare and bright. All Soulution systems I have ever heard had that characteristic. Sadly, so did the Clarisys system in Munich. Your claim with tube amps is based on pairing with which tube amps?

Soulution systems yes, you should listen to Soulution preamp with a valve amp, I heard both with Allnic and NAT Magma.

Also one man’s clean etc depends on his recordings

 

[bonzo75]

Generally I think valve preamps for SS amps is massaging band aid, and SS preamps into valve power amps is a better strategy.

unless one gets better speakers and goes all SETs lol. For the price of SS chains these days you can go all Kondo and pass it on to your kids as legacy. So you get better sound, WAF, and convince your wife you are investing for the family’s future given inflation and that gold doesn’t take off and crypto is dodgy.

 

[Verdier]

Well I think Vitus pre is slow. On classical. I like preamp to be clean, transparent, fast, and allow recording ambience to be heard. For example I don’t like Soulution amp but I like their preamp and the 720 is a bargain in the used market. it might not play that well with Vitus amp but is great in Valve based systems. The L10 was slightly better than the Soulution 725 pre on similar lines in a CH based system. The owner had the 725, and the older CH pre, then upgraded to L10.

this is why Verdier needs to consider his whole chain strategy

Hi Bonzo,

I think you have completely misunderstood me. I am not looking for electronics, I have very, very fine equipment from Aries Cerat. Above all, my speakers are very sensitive (at least 97 db) and also have active basses, so I don't really need transitoramps - especially not ones with hundreds of watts. I asked out of curiosity because I often read here about system constellations of certain speakers with certain amps and would like to get a rough idea of how I should imagine the sound of such a system.

Your suggestion of a Soulution Pre with a tube power amp is something you do often. I hope to hear something like that somewhere. However, I am not someone who actively travels around for such a listening opportunity - so it would have to happen by chance.

 

[bonzo75]

I have seldom been able to imagine on words alone unless I sat ash’s listened with that person or had many common references. But with videos, it becomes much easier

 

[morricab]

Soulution systems yes, you should listen to Soulution preamp with a valve amp, I heard both with Allnic and NAT Magma.

Also one man’s clean etc depends on his recordings

I think you are overselling the recordings thing. There are plenty of very high quality recordings out there...not all of them are old ones.

You also oversell the Soulution preamp thing. There is no way this sounds better than a top tube preamp with those same tube amps you mentioned. I don't buy it at all and you have not done the A/B comparisons I am sure. Big classical works might benefit if something leans out and creates a sparse sound as it might be easier to hear all the instrument sections...if that is your thing. But it won't get the instrument timbre right and you can get that kind of resolution with tubes AND get the timbre right. However, big classical works are only a small part of life's music repertoire...I personally prefer smaller works (trios, quartets, quintets etc.)...also live. i like to be close to the performers and I have a lot of live experience up close to the performers. Sitting mid-hall is ok but it doesn't have the same palpabiilty and is VERY hall dependent. It's all good but you judge based on a handful of good recordings that are by no means definitive.

 

[bonzo75]

I think you are overselling the recordings thing. There are plenty of very high quality recordings out there...not all of them are old ones.

You wouldn’t know.

 

[morricab]

You wouldn’t know.

And you know this how, exactly?

 

[Elliot G.]

And you know this how, exactly?

IMO this is one of the 12 agendas constantly being pushed into every thread. If you dont have the "special records" you dont know squat!!!!!

IMO NONSENSE absolute nonsense

 

[bonzo75]

And you know this how, exactly?

from your posts and also the recordings you play

 

[ogshighend]

Welcome to WBF.

With this being your first post I would first ask do you have any affiliation with an audio dealer? Are you an audio dealer? Only asking to make sure that you are just an audio user. Of course your opinion in your system with the TAD 2404's is respected.

Did you test the Ongaku with any other tubes? I use NOS RCA's or GE's in my Ongaku, it makes quite a difference. The Kondo supplied factory tubes are let's say ok at best.

Hello. Thanks for the welcome
I am in both worlds , i am final user with collectible tube gear and owner of highend audio store. I understand perfectly the difference between the comercial and personal taste because I never loose how my heart is connected with the soul of the music.

In this forum i write like an audiophile about the passion i share with a friend who is a real collector of japanese amps, preamplifier, turntables, etc and we listen and compare every week different amps, cartridges only for hobby with no commercial intentions. he opportunity of listen more than 50 old iconic brands like shindo, kondo, Audio Tekne, airtight, and of course Western Electric, Valves's world etc. All this with TAD , Avantgarde and Voxative
I write about compare Airtight with Kondo in terms of music soul and personally we prefere Airtight for the described up . Anyway is we need to compare with Audio Tekne or Valves's world we need to talk again because we are talking about the real high-end and the price and name is very subjective.

I am glad to share my experience with distinguished gentleman audiophiles

OGS

 

[Rhapsody]

Hello. Thanks for the welcome
I am in both worlds , i am final user with collectible tube gear and owner of highend audio store. I understand perfectly the difference between the comercial and personal taste because I never loose how my heart is connected with the soul of the music.

In this forum i write like an audiophile about the passion i share with a friend who is a real collector of japanese amps, preamplifier, turntables, etc and we listen and compare every week different amps, cartridges only for hobby with no commercial intentions. he opportunity of listen more than 50 old iconic brands like shindo, kondo, Audio Tekne, airtight, and of course Western Electric, Valves's world etc. All this with TAD , Avantgarde and Voxative
I write about compare Airtight with Kondo in terms of music soul and personally we prefere Airtight for the described up . Anyway is we need to compare with Audio Tekne or Valves's world we need to talk again because we are talking about the real high-end and the price and name is very subjective.

I am glad to share my experience with distinguished gentleman audiophiles

OGS

View attachment 115073

Thank you for your reply. FUN looking gear, bet it all sounds great. Nice room as well!

As an owner of an audio store it is proper etiquette on WBF to include this disclosure in your signature. Just a head's up.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Hello. Thanks for the welcome
I am in both worlds , i am final user with collectible tube gear and owner of highend audio store. I understand perfectly the difference between the comercial and personal taste because I never loose how my heart is connected with the soul of the music.

In this forum i write like an audiophile about the passion i share with a friend who is a real collector of japanese amps, preamplifier, turntables, etc and we listen and compare every week different amps, cartridges only for hobby with no commercial intentions. he opportunity of listen more than 50 old iconic brands like shindo, kondo, Audio Tekne, airtight, and of course Western Electric, Valves's world etc. All this with TAD , Avantgarde and Voxative
I write about compare Airtight with Kondo in terms of music soul and personally we prefere Airtight for the described up . Anyway is we need to compare with Audio Tekne or Valves's world we need to talk again because we are talking about the real high-end and the price and name is very subjective.

I am glad to share my experience with distinguished gentleman audiophiles

OGS

View attachment 115073

Welcome here
Is tossie still working.? No updates on his site

Valves' World ƒMƒƒƒ‰ƒŠ[

 

[morricab]

from your posts and also the recordings you play

How do you know what recordings I play?? You have somehow cameras in my apartment? Last time I checked we never sat down and listened to anything together…ever. My posts don’t really reveal much about the music I play, so not much to glean from that…All BS all the time from you.