What's Best? Soulution, CH Precision, Vitus, or Ayre?

[MadFloyd]

Interesting.... 'just less obviously bad'. Well I guess that's still progress.

 

[JackD201]

After having heard lots of solid state lately i think i have narrowed it down , CH M 1.1.
Should work fine with my ( single ended ) CAT pre, the CH has both balanced and single ended inputs

I think my choice is gonna be this one second hand off course , what also matters is that i have more or less concluded all power tube amps colour the sound ( incl my own CAT .)
Solid state has improved over the years


View attachment 120380

When the 1 Series set arrived here for the first time. The first thing I did was slot in the M1s in place of my Lamm M2.2s using the L2 Reference preamp. The L2 Ref is a solid state pre with a tube power supply and a low output voltage. The Lamm magic added to CH liquidity was intoxicating. I don't mix and match these days but that remains one of the best I've heard. I see no reason for anyone to not try a tube pre with an M1, A1.5 or M10. DC blocking (Cap) is a menu selectable option on the amp inputs that should allay any fears.

 

[JackD201]

I am even more tripping because I have heard CH many many times now and STILL don't get that kind of shift.

It wasn't plug and play in my case. Doodling with the gain relationships was the key for me. It was when I had finally set up the CH app and do the gain configurations from the listening chair that allowed me to do quick comparisons that I got it. The thing is when I moved to the 10 series while it was immediately better than the 1 series out of the box I was very surprised to find more fluidity and textural nuance when redoodling. What threw me off is that starting points were different. The M10s allow you to decrease the gain but not increase it off the reference point like the M1 does. I was surprised that the bass was tightest and the mids and treble most fluid with 0 feedback and gain of -5.5. This was easily made up by the volume control of the L10 which allows up to +18. I only added 2dB and it all locked in. This is speaker dependent for sure but it held up for both the Ultra 11s and the Ultra 7s as the best (to my ears) setting for my toob lovin' ears.

For any CH owner I highly,HIGHLY recommend getting an Android tablet and a network switcher to control your CH gear from your listening seat. You've already spent a ton of money that makes the expense on this trivial by comparison. I guarantee that it will cut your set up time by hours and hours. Much more than that it will save you from a bad back and lots of cussing using the tiny front panel buttons.

 

[JackD201]

Hint, its in the phrase "breath of life" ...

I'll forever love Steve Hoffman for that

 

[Argonaut]

n my view its the power amp that needs to amplify the signal with as less coloration as possible .
I m not talking " sound better " , i just want the musical inner detail without smearing .

But … If you apply your own Logic 101 , you are merely sending a compromised , or in your parlance ‘ Smeared” audio signal from a valve Pre to your perfect amplification solution … ergo whats the point ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

But … If you apply your own Logic 101 , you are merely sending a compromised , or in your parlance ‘ Smeared” audio signal from a valve Pre to your perfect amplification solution … ergo whats the point ?

There is indeed no point , other then it sounds pleasing to my ears .

I listen to audio gear because it makes me feel good , not to prove a point to others

 

[morricab]

There is indeed no point , other then it sounds pleasing to my ears .

I listen to audio gear because it makes me feel good , not to prove a point to others

AHH, so it is how pleasing it is to your ears...and you would still prefer SS using your pleasure level as a guide and not some sort of hypothetical "smearing"? Don't you think your CAT JL5s will be more "pleasing" to listen to in general, smearing notwithstanding (while CAT amps are not bad they are also not SOTA for tube products)?

 

[andromedaaudio]

AHH, so it is how pleasing it is to your ears...and you would still prefer SS using your pleasure level as a guide and not some sort of hypothetical "smearing"? Don't you think your CAT JL5s will be more "pleasing" to listen to in general, smearing notwithstanding (while CAT amps are not bad they are also not SOTA for tube products)?

Sorry morricab, i have explained myself already many times over .
I like both , thats why i keep the CAT power amp as well .
Ideally id have a SS pre / power set up and a Pre/ power tube set up and do a bit of back and forth .

 

[morricab]

It wasn't plug and play in my case. Doodling with the gain relationships was the key for me. It was when I had finally set up the CH app and do the gain configurations from the listening chair that allowed me to do quick comparisons that I got it. The thing is when I moved to the 10 series while it was immediately better than the 1 series out of the box I was very surprised to find more fluidity and textural nuance when redoodling. What threw me off is that starting points were different. The M10s allow you to decrease the gain but not increase it off the reference point like the M1 does. I was surprised that the bass was tightest and the mids and treble most fluid with 0 feedback and gain of -5.5. This was easily made up by the volume control of the L10 which allows up to +18. I only added 2dB and it all locked in. This is speaker dependent for sure but it held up for both the Ultra 11s and the Ultra 7s as the best (to my ears) setting for my toob lovin' ears.

For any CH owner I highly,HIGHLY recommend getting an Android tablet and a network switcher to control your CH gear from your listening seat. You've already spent a ton of money that makes the expense on this trivial by comparison. I guarantee that it will cut your set up time by hours and hours. Much more than that it will save you from a bad back and lots of cussing using the tiny front panel buttons.

Interesting, I am not surprised that you run the M10s with zero feedback (I am assuming this means zero global feedback but that there is still some local feedback...it is a rather complicated product and that always means some feedback.). As I have only heard these amps at shows, it is hard to know how they were setup...probably not optimally. My experience with them though is that they are in some ways flawless...but in a negative vs. positive way. Hard to explain except that when I hear them I feel the life of the music is gone and "gasp" it doesn't breathe. It feels dead to me. What I have seen though is they polarize, some are truly in love with the sound and some are repelled by it.

The guy from Hifi Advice uses CH amps and he is comparing them a lot to tube amps (albeit often with speakers that are not ideal for the tubes). His observations about the strengths and what I perceive as the weaknesses pretty closely mirror what I hear. He also compares the CH DAC with tube DACs, like Ayon and Aries Cerat, and those comparisons result in the sound descriptions that one might expect. So, good listeners clearly hear the differences.

So, the WHAT about the sound is pretty easy to converge on agreement but the Subjective perception of how that makes you feel when you hear it diverges sharply.

 

[JackD201]

PM me your Whatsapp I'll share a vid my daughter took at the show we just did. They can breathe perhaps not as breathe-of-life-y as full on tube rectified tube gear but enough for me to be satisfied with the speakers I prefer.

I haven't given up on tubes yet by the way, that avatar stays LOL I will have a parallel system when I have another space that deserves that love and attention. That is a goal to motivate me to work harder towards. Oh lots of yummy tube pres and amps out there.

I'm waiting to see how Elina will move forward without Vlad. The ML3s will always be on my list. I still own a personal set of KRs. It is the speakers that they deserve that have eluded me. We do not have the exposure here in South East Asia that you Europeans have when it comes to high sensitivity speakers. I really should travel to Munich. It is just such a busy time of year for me to go.

 

[andromedaaudio]

AHH, so it is how pleasing it is to your ears...and you would still prefer SS using your pleasure level as a guide and not some sort of hypothetical "smearing"? Don't you think your CAT JL5s will be more "pleasing" to listen to in general, smearing notwithstanding (while CAT amps are not bad they are also not SOTA for tube products)?

There is a L 10 / M10 for sale at the moment , he is asking 45 and 68 may be i ll have them both for 100 K
I d love to give them both a shot and may be i ll be proven wrong regarding the " CAT tube pre " being ..."better"

 

[ashandger]

PM me your Whatsapp I'll share a vid my daughter took at the show we just did. They can breathe perhaps not as breathe-of-life-y as full on tube rectified tube gear but enough for me to be satisfied with the speakers I prefer.

I haven't given up on tubes yet by the way, that avatar stays LOL I will have a parallel system when I have another space that deserves that love and attention. That is a goal to motivate me to work harder towards. Oh lots of yummy tube pres and amps out there.

I'm waiting to see how Elina will move forward without Vlad. The ML3s will always be on my list. I still own a personal set of KRs. It is the speakers that they deserve that have eluded me. We do not have the exposure here in South East Asia that you Europeans have when it comes to high sensitivity speakers. I really should travel to Munich. It is just such a busy time of year for me to go.

Hello Jack, I have just sent you my Whats App number as well via PM. Looking forward to the video. Many thanks for sharing.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

This is a very interesting topic being currently debated on this thread for me as I was contemplating over the next 5 to 10 years to have a full CH 1 series analogue system (i.e. P1, X1, L1 & M1.1) (would love a CH 10 series but way out of my pay-scale even second hand) as I already have a P1 (without an X1) which is very nice connected to my TOTL Headphone System (Hifiman EF1000 Hybrid Amp & Susvara Headphones) and my Kuzma XL DC & 4Point 11" with MSL Eminent Ex cart TT set-up here in the UK. My EF1000 Amp Hybrid (tube pre & SS power) Amp is also connected to a pair of Focal Electra 1008 Be Speakers.

However, after listening last year and this year to two amazing analogue systems from Definitive Audio / Living Voice (OBX-RW4 Speakers and R80 Speakers) and full all tube electronics TOTL (Phono Stage, Pre-amp & 300B SET Amps) from SJS Electroacoustics with Kuzma TT set-ups (Stabi R with 14" 4Point with CAR50 cart - system I heard last year) and an XL Air with Safir 9 with CAR60 cart I heard this year) and a GrandPrix Audio Monaco V3 TT with a Kuzma 4Point 14" arm & CAR50 cart I heard this year alongside the Kuzma XL Air set-up) all TT set-ups being connected to Consolidated Audio Monster Can SUTs, I was in emotionally in love with what my ears were hearing from both of these two systems (especially the system I heard this year with the R80 Speakers and the newly launched SJS Model 10 300B SET Amps mono blocked).

So now I am wondering whether to change my path in obtaining my final end-game HiFi System for my retirement (planning to retire in Spain in about 10 to 12 years time - assuming I live that long....lol ) and not to go down the CH Precision SS route with normal efficiency speakers (i.e. maybe the Focal range as I already have Focal Electra 1038 Be Speakers in my full SS and digital source Chord Choral System in Spain which I like the sound of having had them since 2012) and instead go down a full tube system route and SUT route with high efficiency speakers (maybe even Horns) ?

I also need to try my Hifiman EF1000 Amp (with 50W output Class A and 100W Class A/B) with higher efficiency and higher quality speakers to what they are connected to at the moment i.e. my Focal Electra 1008 Be Speakers (maybe take it to Spain with me to try with my Focal Electra 1038 Speakers) as I like the sound signature of the EF1000 with my Susvara Headphones and Focal 1008 speakers (better than my full Chord Electronics Choral System in Spain - although no where near as the music sound I was hearing from the two Definitive Audio / Living Voice and SJS Systems last year and this year).

What I need to do over the next couple of years is to hear as many hifi systems as I can (ideally as many as possible in the UK to save on travel costs etc.), of equal number and high quality between full tube, part tube & SS, hybrid and full SS systems, and see what I really love ?

However, at the moment, as much as I love the sound of my TOTL Headphone System here in the UK, I pine for the sound of the music I was listening to from the Definitive Audio / Living Voice and SJS Systems, once last year and once this year and often play YouTube videos with systems from these two companies that have been displayed and played at past hifi shows and in customers homes and dealer's venues etc. !

Decisions, decisions...and expensive one's too ! Who ever said this hobby was easy lol !

 

[JackD201]

The bigger question is where in Spain?

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

The bigger question is where in Spain?

Lol .... South of Spain... In the Altos Del Higueron area

 

[JackD201]

Andalucia? Good choice! That's where my great grandpa was from Sorry for the thread hijack I wast just in Spain a few weeks ago. Spent almost a month. LOVE IT!

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Andalucia? Good choice! That's where my great grandpa was from Sorry for the thread hijack I wast just in Spain a few weeks ago. Spent almost a month. LOVE IT!

My home (2 bed apartment) in Spain is about 15 to 20mins drive from Malaga airport going towards Marbella in between Fuengirola and Benalmadena.

Yes, a beautiful part of the world. Love Spain too. I try and get back there every 6 to 8 weeks for a long weekend and always there for Xmas and New Year (around a 10 to 12 days stay).

 

[morricab]

PM me your Whatsapp I'll share a vid my daughter took at the show we just did. They can breathe perhaps not as breathe-of-life-y as full on tube rectified tube gear but enough for me to be satisfied with the speakers I prefer.

I haven't given up on tubes yet by the way, that avatar stays LOL I will have a parallel system when I have another space that deserves that love and attention. That is a goal to motivate me to work harder towards. Oh lots of yummy tube pres and amps out there.

I'm waiting to see how Elina will move forward without Vlad. The ML3s will always be on my list. I still own a personal set of KRs. It is the speakers that they deserve that have eluded me. We do not have the exposure here in South East Asia that you Europeans have when it comes to high sensitivity speakers. I really should travel to Munich. It is just such a busy time of year for me to go.

I will PM you my email as I don’t do WhatsApp…would be curious to hear.

I am glad you understand what I am going on about though with breathing. I first really discovered this in live music sitting very close to unamplified instruments. One memorable experience was I was at a jazz concert in Tonhalle Zurich and was hearing Kenny Baron on piano and a Swiss guy (name eludes me) on Saxophone. We were in the second row and what I noticed was when the Sax guy played soft the sound stuck close to the horn but as he would get louder the sound would expand out towards me like a bubble and then recede with decreased intensity…breathing.

I heard the same listen to violin in a modest sized room…the acoustic power of a Stradivarius is bind blowing and does a similar breathing in smaller spaces.

That is something I look for them as part of realistic presentation of music and only heard it in playback when I went horn/SET…my planars…as good as they were, never could do it. For me, it’s indispensable if I want a lifelike playback…of course not all recordings allow it to happen.

Give Stavros at Aries Cerat a call…no need to worry what will happen to LAMM…

Which KR did you hang on to? I was a KR dealer in the past and still am fond of their products.

 

[morricab]

There is a L 10 / M10 for sale at the moment , he is asking 45 and 68 may be i ll have them both for 100 K
I d love to give them both a shot and may be i ll be proven wrong regarding the " CAT tube pre " being ..."better"

You only need 48k for the pre to “prove” it

 

[morricab]

This is a very interesting topic being currently debated on this thread for me as I was contemplating over the next 5 to 10 years to have a full CH 1 series analogue system (i.e. P1, X1, L1 & M1.1) (would love a CH 10 series but way out of my pay-scale even second hand) as I already have a P1 (without an X1) which is very nice connected to my TOTL Headphone System (Hifiman EF1000 Hybrid Amp & Susvara Headphones) and my Kuzma XL DC & 4Point 11" with MSL Eminent Ex cart TT set-up here in the UK. My EF1000 Amp Hybrid (tube pre & SS power) Amp is also connected to a pair of Focal Electra 1008 Be Speakers.

However, after listening last year and this year to two amazing analogue systems from Definitive Audio / Living Voice (OBX-RW4 Speakers and R80 Speakers) and full all tube electronics TOTL (Phono Stage, Pre-amp & 300B SET Amps) from SJS Electroacoustics with Kuzma TT set-ups (Stabi R with 14" 4Point with CAR50 cart - system I heard last year) and an XL Air with Safir 9 with CAR60 cart I heard this year) and a GrandPrix Audio Monaco V3 TT with a Kuzma 4Point 14" arm & CAR50 cart I heard this year alongside the Kuzma XL Air set-up) all TT set-ups being connected to Consolidated Audio Monster Can SUTs, I was in emotionally in love with what my ears were hearing from both of these two systems (especially the system I heard this year with the R80 Speakers and the newly launched SJS Model 10 300B SET Amps mono blocked).

So now I am wondering whether to change my path in obtaining my final end-game HiFi System for my retirement (planning to retire in Spain in about 10 to 12 years time - assuming I live that long....lol ) and not to go down the CH Precision SS route with normal efficiency speakers (i.e. maybe the Focal range as I already have Focal Electra 1038 Be Speakers in my full SS and digital source Chord Choral System in Spain which I like the sound of having had them since 2012) and instead go down a full tube system route and SUT route with high efficiency speakers (maybe even Horns) ?

I also need to try my Hifiman EF1000 Amp (with 50W output Class A and 100W Class A/B) with higher efficiency and higher quality speakers to what they are connected to at the moment i.e. my Focal Electra 1008 Be Speakers (maybe take it to Spain with me to try with my Focal Electra 1038 Speakers) as I like the sound signature of the EF1000 with my Susvara Headphones and Focal 1008 speakers (better than my full Chord Electronics Choral System in Spain - although no where near as the music sound I was hearing from the two Definitive Audio / Living Voice and SJS Systems last year and this year).

What I need to do over the next couple of years is to hear as many hifi systems as I can (ideally as many as possible in the UK to save on travel costs etc.), of equal number and high quality between full tube, part tube & SS, hybrid and full SS systems, and see what I really love ?

However, at the moment, as much as I love the sound of my TOTL Headphone System here in the UK, I pine for the sound of the music I was listening to from the Definitive Audio / Living Voice and SJS Systems, once last year and once this year and often play YouTube videos with systems from these two companies that have been displayed and played at past hifi shows and in customers homes and dealer's venues etc. !

Decisions, decisions...and expensive one's too ! Who ever said this hobby was easy lol !

You are welcome to come to Switzerland for a visit as you are now bitten by the bug. You can hear some horns here and some other high sensitivity setups.

The LV speakers are great sounding and you don’t need SJS priced gear to make them sing…but that gear is nice.