When 12 Gauge Wire is not 12 Gauge!

Apr 3, 2010
16,022
0
0
Seattle, WA
#21
Would using AC change your measurements, given that it's AC-current from amplifier to speakers, and not DC? (Just for my edification).
DC resistance affects all frequencies equally. AC however changes based on frequency so there is no one single number there.

And while I would never attempt to use coat-hangers myself, I do remember that gizmodo-article, and that they twisted and soldered four coat hangers to create a speaker cable. Maybe they realized they would need more than one.
This is the mother of all fish stories. This was reported on countless web sites, blogs and some online rags such as Gizmodo as if it was some thorough analysis. It was not. It was a casual test reported by a "Dr. Bob" in this forum post: http://forums.audioholics.com/forum...ers;-when-good-enough-enough-3.html#post15412

Go to next page of that thread and you see him saying he is a (medical) doctor and that it was his brother who was an engineer and created the coat hanger speaker wires. That is the sum total. From this one anecdotal post, the thing grew into fact: "coat hanger beats monster cable." I challenge folks to try to make a speaker wire out of coat hangers that can be plugged in and out quickly in a blind test. Not saying it can't be done but it is hard. For one thing, if the coat hanger is conductive -- and not all are -- how do you get a pair that doesn't short out as the two wires cross when you move them? Soldering will be a total pain too as this stuff is not made to accept solder. And they are stiff as heck.

Again, this could be done but the proof that it was done and was done properly takes a lot more than hearsay in a forum post. Everyone wants to believe its message so it has become "fact."
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,121
0
36
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#22
My wife really likes my new speaker wires because my closet is more organized than ever before. I put in a 7.1 system and it holds all my shirts neatly as well! :)

Lee
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,571
5
38
Calgary, AB
#23
my wife really likes my new speaker wires because my closet is more organized than ever before. I put in a 7.1 system and it holds all my shirts neatly as well! :)

lee

lol!
 
#24
Inductance of the wire is just as important as resistance, maybe even more important. Low inductance is what enables HF transient currents to be delivered to the speakers at the same levels as steady-state low frequencies.

I performed a series of measurements and computer simulations using expensive modeling software when I was still designing cables. My measurements show that 6 feet of stranded copper speaker wire has the same inductance as 30-feet of ROMEX.

The data also shows that the inductance of a properly designed speaker cable with optimum geometry using a multitude of smaller conductors will have 1/10 of the inductance of ROMEX or two-conductor cable, given the same cross-section gauge.

If you must use stranded copper, at least get silver plated strands so that the oxidation on the copper does not interfere with the performance.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

cjf

Member
Nov 19, 2012
326
1
18
#25
Inductance of the wire is just as important as resistance, maybe even more important. Low inductance is what enables HF transient currents to be delivered to the speakers at the same levels as steady-state low frequencies.

I performed a series of measurements and computer simulations using expensive modeling software when I was still designing cables. My measurements show that 6 feet of stranded copper speaker wire has the same inductance as 30-feet of ROMEX.

The data also shows that the inductance of a properly designed speaker cable with optimum geometry using a multitude of smaller conductors will have 1/10 of the inductance of ROMEX or two-conductor cable, given the same cross-section gauge.

If you must use stranded copper, at least get silver plated strands so that the oxidation on the copper does not interfere with the performance.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
I wonder......how long do you suspect it takes for jacketed Copper wire to oxidize enough to effect performance assuming its not run in an environment with high levels of humidity or under water?

I've always though Silver plated wire sounds like poo (Harsh) but then again, maybe it was some other outside variable causing this to happen?
 
Oct 1, 2010
929
5
18
Cleveland Ohio
#26
Measuring the inductance of a single wire is of little concern, what is of interest is the loop inductance of a loudspeaker cable. That would be measured with the Hot & Cold conductors jumpered at the far end. With the lengths being equal, the cable having the wider conductor spacing will have the higher loop inductance. (over simplified)

* * * * * * * * * *
The longer the speaker cable and the lower the high frequency impedance of the loudspeaker, the more interesting loop inductance will be.
 
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#27
I wonder......how long do you suspect it takes for jacketed Copper wire to oxidize enough to effect performance assuming its not run in an environment with high levels of humidity or under water?

I've always though Silver plated wire sounds like poo (Harsh) but then again, maybe it was some other outside variable causing this to happen?
Most copper off the spool used to build cables is already quite oxidized. Just strip some copper wire from Home Depot and hit it with steel wool to see what I mean.

I don't care much for silver plated, except for speaker cables, where it is excellent. Not as good as pure silver of course.

As for pure Silver, there is good silver and poorly handled silver. You must start with very good purity and large crystals, like OCC silver. Then you must anneal it properly and then take great care in assembly not to break the crystal lattice. If you do all of these, then there is no harshness to silver.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
#28
Measuring the inductance of a single wire is of little concern, what is of interest is the loop inductance of a loudspeaker cable. That would be measured with the Hot & Cold conductors jumpered at the far end. With the lengths being equal, the cable having the wider conductor spacing will have the higher loop inductance. (over simplified)

* * * * * * * * * *
The longer the speaker cable and the lower the high frequency impedance of the loudspeaker, the more interesting loop inductance will be.
Measuring the whole cable is exactly what you do. I believe I used a dummy load at the end.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

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