Who is MasterBuilt?

[Speedskater]

Your list missed the best purchase in cables:
Blue Jeans Cable :: Kurt Denke

 

[NorthStar]

The OP, AudioEdge, has a legitimate question...no doubt about it.

And for me too, the people behind the products; the designers, manufacturers, distributors, sellers, owners, etc. are all important.
If for some only the listening is sufficient, that's great...less questions and research.
We're all different, we all deserve respect; engineers, scientists, audiophiles, researchers, ...everyone and anyone.

* I also agree with Amir, PeterA and Ack.

 

[Steve williams]

The OP, AudioEdge, has a legitimate question...no doubt about it.

And for me too, the people behind the products; the designers, manufacturers, distributors, sellers, owners, etc. are all important.
If for some only the listening is sufficient, that's great...less questions and research.
We're all different, we all deserve respect; engineers, scientists, audiophiles, researchers, ...everyone and anyone.

* I also agree with Amir, PeterA and Ack.

I'd like to know how many products you buy Bob and ask yourself who are the designers and manufacturers etc.

As I have stated and AFAIK M+B is owned by 4 engineers from Delphi Aerospace. Having said that what does this or anything else for that matter tell you about the nature of the product and how it sounds. VSA owns the name Master Built.

Whomever owns it Bob I wish them all the success as this cable has made a huge impact on the sound quality of my system and for me that's all I care about.I've auditioned and owned countless cables over the years and having heard these cables I can honestly say that these are "lifers" in my system

 

[Leif S]

Leif, are HDMI cables in the future of Master-Built's design?

Hi NorthStar,

At this point in time MasterBuilt does not have HDMI cables. I don't know if this is going to be something down the road or not.

Leif

 

[Leif S]

Any update on which rooms if any will have MasterBuilt cables at RMAF? I would like to check them out while there.

Hi still-one,

MasterBuilt was supposed to be in rom 549 at the show. We also had another room 1023 in the tower with other partners. Since the hotel renovations were not completed in time we decided to just have the one room this year. MB will not be there.

Leif

 

[Leif S]

It is an interesting OP. I guess the only difference it would make to me is this: As a potential customer, I would want to know if VSA owns the brand as well as the trademark. Knowing this would give me a different perception of mark ups and profits which may lead to my perception of value. Basically, I would be buying the cables at the expensive published prices directly from the owner/manufacturer at full retail. Alternatively, if VSA does not own the brand, then some other entity is making a profit also, and VSA is only the middle man. This is not clear to me, at this point and knowing more might help me to understand why the cables are so expensive. If I could buy Transparent cables directly from the owner/manufacturer, and not have to go through and thus support an extensive dealer network, prices may be very different.

For me, the OP raises a very timely question. Are we moving further and further toward a model where we buy directly from the high end manufacturer at what used to be considered retail prices? Are we moving toward the Tesla sales model?

I also notice that the trademark dates are close to when these cables came to our attention on this forum. It will be interesting to read feedback about MasterBuilt from RMAF reports.

Hi Peter,

As I have mentioned before.......Von Schweikert does not make cables. VSA owns the name MasterBuilt only. The cables are sub-contracted from engineers in the aerospace industry and we purchase these cables from these engineers.

 

[PeterA]

The OP, AudioEdge, has a legitimate question...no doubt about it.

And for me too, the people behind the products; the designers, manufacturers, distributors, sellers, owners, etc. are all important.
If for some only the listening is sufficient, that's great...less questions and research.
We're all different, we all deserve respect; engineers, scientists, audiophiles, researchers, ...everyone and anyone.

* I also agree with Amir, PeterA and Ack.

Thanks Bob. I'm both surprised and flattered to be in any group that includes both Amir and Ack.

 

[Leif S]

Yeah - what he said.
At the risk of creating too long of a post and engendering further snarky remarks, here's some background
I'm looking to do a full loom upgrade which I figure could push upwards of 15-20K. Before dropping that coin, I'd like to know who's behind the product - any product - not just this one. For virtually any product it takes about 30 seconds to learn "about us" on various sites.
Some random examples:
Shunyata Caelin Gabriel
Kubala Ron Kubala
PS Audio Paul McGowan
Pass Labs Nelson Pass
YG Yoav Geva
VSA Albert von Schweikert
Nordost Joe Reynolds
Transparent Carl Smith, Karen Sumner, and Jack Sumner
Parasound Richard Schram
Wilson Dave Wilson
Majico Alon Wolf
Naim Vervent Audio Group
Bricasti Brian Zolner
MSB Mark; Larry; Jonathan; Daniel; et al.
Ayre Charles Hansen
MIT Bruce Brisson
AudioNet Thomas Gessler
Aurender "Harry" & "Sally" et al
Kronos Louis Desjardins
Tannoy Guy R. Fountain/ Music TCGroup
Masterbuilt ?

Name, address, phone also readily available, except for MB.

Re: some of the earlier questions:
"most of your 7 posts here have been about Master Built" coincidence cuz my first choice right now is Shunyata and in doing search this site came up with, along with raves for MB so wanted to check it out.
And, a simple question as to who is the manufacturer seems to engender everything but a simple answer.

Re:"Von Schweikert does not manufacture audio cables. We are the distributor for the cables only. Hope that helps"
Partially, so please provide name/address/phone for manufacturer ( see above)

Re:" What's your beef or why are you trying so hard to find out the answer to your inquiry? Just curious."
None, what's yours? Also, see above.

Re: " Was surprised that there was no clear web site/identity for this cable. Is that an omission or some kind of stealth marketing?"
Agree, esp at these price points.

So, gentlemen, excuse me for asking a simple question and simply wanting a simple answer.
Clearly I have intruded in your clubhouse where such such things are apparently beneath the concerns of the cognoscenti.

but that one cannot get a straight answer..... "“Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice"

Hello AudioEdge,

All we have ever done is tell people to try the cables for themselves. It's all about how the cables perform in their system.

The engineers who build the cables for MasterBuilt have no desire or obligation to be publicly recognized. Our agreement with these engineers is for us to distribute the cables. It's really pretty simple......all that matters is the performance and nothing else. I'm very confused about anyone making this conversation more than anything else but the performance. If you need to know who the engineers are of the products you buy then stick with those products. All I care about is the performance.

 

[NorthStar]

Delphi Automotive is the principal company, aerospace is just a department.
Also, anyone can google Delphi Technologies, Inc

Of course I don't know all the story lines and the people behind all the products I purchase.
Even Leif admitted that some info is not revealed to him, obviously as there are well kept business secrets...to protect patents, from copycats, from hackers, etc.

Is there something illegal or wrong in doing research as to the exact provenance and fabrication of Master-Built cables?
Are we automatically guilty of a crime when searching the origins, ownership, ...of a company with "prestigious" and expensive audio cables?

I got that very clearly that they improve the sound, very very clear. And I have no problem with that.
As an interested audio/music/film person, I participate in the art of knowledge. The OP is another perfect example, and we are many many more in that situation.

We have already learned some more from this thread. To me it's advancement, just like everything in life. We balance things, we research to make the best choices.
We are not only audiophiles in search of improvement in our own sound refinement, we are also explorers in all things life related.
We are @ the threshold of high end audio knowledge, and we have the right to that knowledge. @ least we are free to search and ask questions.
We like open skies, open science, open people. We like balance in life.

I understand very well our system here in North America and in other world's countries. We are getting better educated, more knowledgeable, we have tools today that we didn't have yesterday. It's easy to go off topic here but I won't. The OP asked a simple question and I saw nothing wrong in his approach.

And again, Delphi Aerospace is only a division/department of Delphi Automotive.

* And I agree with what Leif just said above.

** There is no wright or wrong, only our own choices in the system we all created. It is right for some to go beyond the average, as it is right for the average to remain below the best.

 

[JackD201]

It comes with the territory for any kind of product Leif. It's the reality of Branding. There will always be people pulled in by the gravity of the key men, others by the reputation built up by a company over time, some just by pure performance. I for one like Oscar Mayer hotdogs even if Oscar Mayer's been gone for a looong time but I do try the new offerings because of his name now a brand but no longer "the guy". I do understand that _______ and company would rather stay away from the public eye and that is their right. It makes it harder for you but that's just the way it is. You can't please everybody. Caelin is the most open about what he and his company does but he still gets hounded. Such is life in the forum world.

 

[Leif S]

It comes with the territory for any kind of product Leif. It's the reality of Branding. There will always be people pulled in by the gravity of the key men, others by the reputation built up by a company over time, some just by pure performance. I for one like Oscar Mayer hotdogs even if Oscar Mayer's been gone for a looong time but I do try the new offerings because of his name now a brand but no longer "the guy". I do understand that _______ and company would rather stay away from the public eye and that is their right. It makes it harder for you but that's just the way it is. You can't please everybody. Caelin is the most open about what he and his company does but he still gets hounded. Such is life in the forum world.

I totally agree

 

[Mike Lavigne]

it's all signal to noise.

modestly priced products get a pass as expectations are allowed to build over time. feedback gets added to other feedback, and data points accumulate. credibility gets established and prices increase with upscale models......there is a baseline of comparative feedback. there is a solid 'signal' to support the level of noise the product produces. the dots line up.

and that is for electronics. now switch to cables which get double or triple the inherent skepticism anyway.

you cannot blame the skepticism about Master Built on the web or forum politics, it's about the suddenness of the degree of hype; without any normal process of familiarization with the product line.....combined with the mystery of who builds it.

no other result was possible.

$70k speaker cables suddenly landing in the market without any pedigree or build up is just too much to accept. expectations are way out of scale with credibility earned.

the civility of the responses is only due to the identity of the participants. anyone less respected and this would be an all out assault.

 

[Steve williams]

It's not a new cable at all Mike

It's been around as Jack points out for several years. I feel it was me who let the cat out of the bag Mike. Every now and then there comes a product in every industry that is exceptional no matter whether the company is new or been around. Your comments about expectations are way out of scale with credibilty earned makes no sense to me. Who has to give the cable their blessings Mike to make it credible. There are many members here who are users and as they all said none of them give a crap about forum comments as they are all nothing more than opinions. Having said that Mike, my opinion and as I said it is my opinion only and that is these cables are like nothing I have ever heard. Perhaps rather than knocking something you've never heard Mike, just as you have said here before about products other comment on, you tell the members to go have a listen and then lets talk intelligently." IMO Mike you are missing out and are becoming similar to those who discuss with you products they have never heard. So I suggest, go have a listen and then let's talk.

 

[RBFC]

In over 20 years of moderating forums (some much larger and more contentious than WBF), I have found that there are always individuals and topics that give rise to "opportunistic debate".

First, there are certain topics (digital vs analog, Knicks vs Lakers, 9mm vs .45, etc) that virtually guarantee heated arguments.

Secondly, there are a subset of forum members who I call "professional contrarians". These folks will find a reason to argue with almost any topic, and steadfastly refuse to recant even when staggering evidence refutes their position. Some simply argue just to revel in the commotion.

This is not posted in green font, as these are my personal opinions. While a healthy dose of skepticism in conversation produces both supporting evidence and negating factors, there is a point where there is nothing to be gained from escalating the proceedings. IMO, we are beyond that point in this thread. As exclusive distributors of the product, VSA has declared that the makers of these cables do not wish to be involved in the public marketing procedures. As I would see it, this fact then places VSA as the "visible entity" for consumers (lawyers please feel free to chime in, as I'm certainly not purporting to be one). For many cable manufacturers, the names mentioned above are not the people who actually build the cables anyway. I do not hear the cries wanting those names....

As with most things audio, we rely on the advice of experienced friends and reviewers we trust, along with personal auditions. No WBF member has, to my knowledge, been forced to buy cables from any of the companies mentioned above. As has been said, you vote with your own wallet.

Thanks for allowing me to momentarily interrupt the thread.

Lee

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It's not a new cable at allMike

It's been around as Jack points out for several years. I feel it was me who let the cat out of the bag Mike. Every now and then there comes a product in every industry that is exceptional no matter whether the company is new or been around. Your comments about expectations are way out of scale with credibilty earned makes no sense to me. Who has to give the cable their blessings Mike to make it credible. There are many members here who are users and as they all said none of them give a crap about forum comments as they are all nothing more than opinions. Having said that Mike, my opinion and as I said it is my opinion only and that is these cables are like nothing I have ever heard. Perhaps rather than knocking something you've never heard Mike, just as you have said here before about products other comment on, you tell the members to go have a listen and then lets talk intelligently." IMO Mike you are missing out and are becoming similar to those who discuss with you products they have never heard. So I suggest, go have a listen and then let's talk.

Steve,

my above post says nothing about the performance, I only responded to Jack as far as why the reaction has been skeptical and questioning the builders and who are they. there could be no other reasonable expectation of reaction.

when a product is perceived as entering at the top of the market then that company asks.....no....they beg to be called to the carpet to answer questions. and if the answers are a bit obtuse...then the crap will fly. A + B = C.

as I've said before, I completely believe and accept your perceptions as credible to me 100%. I accept as gospel that it has taken your system to new heights. my only point was that your reference cables you are using are not comparable to other current similarly priced cables as the Master Build cables you are using. so what do we learn from your feedback about where those cables compare to other mega-uber cables in that price range? it's a reasonable question. could other mega-uber cables at the same price taken your system even further, or a lot further? we don't know because we did not try those others in direct comparisons.

I am totally open to trying these cables. unfortunately I'm not in the market for new cables, but I'd be glad to see how they sound. I do have the $31k Tara Grandmaster Evolution 2m RCA's still on hand that would play at that tip top level of cables. I'd be happy to compare those directly to see what that would tell us.

no doubt these cables sound great. but worth the big bucks? high expectations come with healthy skepticism. one dots 'i's and crosses 't's.

 

[Leif S]

it's all signal to noise.

modestly priced products get a pass as expectations are allowed to build over time. feedback gets added to other feedback, and data points accumulate. credibility gets established and prices increase with upscale models......there is a baseline of comparative feedback. there is a solid 'signal' to support the level of noise the product produces. the dots line up.

and that is for electronics. now switch to cables which get double or triple the inherent skepticism anyway.

you cannot blame the skepticism about Master Built on the web or forum politics, it's about the suddenness of the degree of hype; without any normal process of familiarization with the product line.....combined with the mystery of who builds it.

no other result was possible.

$70k speaker cables suddenly landing in the market without any pedigree or build up is just too much to accept. expectations are way out of scale with credibility earned.

the civility of the responses is only due to the identity of the participants. anyone less respected and this would be an all out assault.

Hi Mike,

I keep seeing you post $70k

The most expensive MB speaker bi-wire cable is $35k

And the least expensive MB bi-wire cable is less than $3k

MasterBuilt has been around for years.

 

[Steve williams]

Well I understand your concern Mike. I really do.

I have no problems with someone who brings a new product here for discussion and not unexpectedly the discussion went this way

But Mike, IIRC weren't you the guy who first brought the world's attention to your Durand Talea and then Telos TT. No one IMO had ever heard of that and there you were proclaiming it's virtues.

I believe you did the exact same thing with his sapphire arm mount as far as bringing it to the world's attention. I read those posts with great interest. I might have been skeptical but I trusted what you heard even though the world had never heard of that manufacturer. I found your posts informative as i valued your opinion

Is my analogy the same as what I am seeing here Mike, only in reverse. Some products are just great from the get go and need only one person to bring it to people's attention

that's my only point

What I love about these cables is the detail and that they are absolutely neutral. No coloration that I heard. Nothing screaming out at the top bottom or mid. It sounded amazing in my system. That's all I wanted people to know Mike

And no to mauidan who said I am looking for vindication which is a bunch of crap. The cables that I have are on loan. I have no horse in the race here

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

I keep seeing you post $70k

The most expensive MB speaker bi-wire cable is $35k

And the least expensive MB bi-wire cable is less than $3k

MasterBuilt has been around for years.

sorry, I went back and looked at where I saw the $70k, and that was an 8 meter set of Master Built Ultra interconnects. I got that confused and thought it was a speaker cable pair.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

BuI have no horse in the race here

me neither. I'm not thinking about cables or going out of my way to talk about mine.

 

[JackD201]

it's all signal to noise.

modestly priced products get a pass as expectations are allowed to build over time. feedback gets added to other feedback, and data points accumulate. credibility gets established and prices increase with upscale models......there is a baseline of comparative feedback. there is a solid 'signal' to support the level of noise the product produces. the dots line up.

and that is for electronics. now switch to cables which get double or triple the inherent skepticism anyway.

you cannot blame the skepticism about Master Built on the web or forum politics, it's about the suddenness of the degree of hype; without any normal process of familiarization with the product line.....combined with the mystery of who builds it.

no other result was possible.

$70k speaker cables suddenly landing in the market without any pedigree or build up is just too much to accept. expectations are way out of scale with credibility earned.

the civility of the responses is only due to the identity of the participants. anyone less respected and this would be an all out assault.

My point is simply that skepticism will never go away Mike and that that is simply a reality. I've had these cables since 2010, the year WBF started. I've actually had most of the iterations of the Signature line if not all. It's been in my signature the entire time. The thing is, I'm not on WBF to sell anything. Heck I don't even go to our local forum to sell anything. I'm here just to have a good time. It's not that was keeping it secret. I have gotten PMs about them over the years and did answer but that is it. As for Steve's visit, he just happened to be curious how two different systems that hit his buttons happened to be using the same make of cables that practically nobody talks about. Two very different systems at that, the only other commonalities being the TTs (but with different arms and carts), the same brand of racks and same brand of speakers. Jim not just my best friend, he's my brother but his digital is not sourced from me and neither are his electronics. We respect each other's tastes highly even if our sonic priorities differ in many ways.

When Steve asked us about MB we didn't go and say it would rock Steve's world. We'd have no way of knowing in the first place. We simply said, they are local to you so give them a try. He did and he loved them. That's really all there is to it. Would it be helpful if I named the cables that have been replaced? I don't think so. All that would do is imply that my former looms are inferior. They may have been within MY system context but there's no way to say it wouldn't be superior in someone else's. I know this sounds dispassionate but I will say that that is furthest from the truth. I am very passionate about reproduction enough to have left a wife and toddler for 5 months just to study it abroad. If anything, I've just been around the block enough times to know how little I actually know. That's why I never go around interrogating anybody. So Steve got a bit excited. We're all guilty of that. So what? I know I did when they got the product right. I just didn't gush as much online since I suppose that's not my personality. I certainly don't take that against anybody that does. I'm just happy for guys that find that next little thing that makes a positive difference be it a fuse, some acoustic adjustments, grounding, whatever. For me satisfaction is all this is about. I don't care how we get there or with what, just that it can be achieved. I also believe that that responsibility lies on each individual and that there are no prophets in audio.