Why aren't coaxial speakers more popular?

[PaulB]

might as well throw the Fyne people into the fray. They have a lot of experience in this area and I find their products to be outstanding.

Fyne IsoFlare coax design

***Dealer***

 

[audiobomber]

Many speaker manufacturers use third party transducers like from ScanSpeak and SEAS.

SEAS offers several Prestige and Excel coaxial speakers.

https://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=60&Itemid=361

https://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=52&Itemid=464

 

[kende]

For those that find the sound of co -axial speakers compelling I would suggest listening to the Coherent Neo 18 speakers. Built by a master craftsman the design is innovative yet simple and takes the co-axial design's inherent sound to the next level IMHO.

I am agree, I have the Coherent GR10 ,the best speaker I have ever had in the 5k range.

 

[AudioHR]

I am agree, I have the Coherent GR10 ,the best speaker I have ever had in the 5k range.

All of the Coherent speakers punch well above their price range. Your GR10's look great too.

I previously owned the Coherent Neo 15 and they really let the music come through. Articulate, dynamic and real they were special with SET amplification.

The Coherent Neo 18 are next level. Plumbing deeper into the bass while retaining the dynamic quickness of the Neo 15 the soundstage and imaging is impressive!

 

[pdreher]

All of the Coherent speakers punch well above their price range. Your GR10's look great too.

I previously owned the Coherent Neo 15 and they really let the music come through. Articulate, dynamic and real they were special with SET amplification.

The Coherent Neo 18 are next level. Plumbing deeper into the bass while retaining the dynamic quickness of the Neo 15 the soundstage and imaging is impressive!

I typically listen at modest volume... around 65 dB (+/-5). Do you find you need to turn the volume up more with the 18 (vs. the 15) to get satisfactory bass? How far away do you sit from the front of the speakers?

 

[AudioHR]

I typically listen at modest volume... around 65 dB (+/-5). Do you find you need to turn the volume up more with the 18 (vs. the 15) to get satisfactory bass? How far away do you sit from the front of the speakers?

I suspect you are listening at dbA and I often listen at the same level. If you are referring to dbC weighting then it's around 75 dbC.

No I don't find I have to turn up the volume at all to get satisfactory bass. The 18" are a touch more efficient than the 15".

I am sitting at 120" to the center driver. Woofer center to woofer center is 99 3/4". The front face of the speaker is 64 1/8th to the front wall with a very 1" toe in.

 

[puroagave]

Coaxial speakers aren't more popular because the drivers are difficult to design and manufacture. Sticking a tweeter in the middle of a midrange or woofer pole piece and expecting them to perform at least as well as separate drivers, is almost impossible. The realization of a full-range driver that mimics a point source is the last 'first' in speaker driver design. Peter walker attempted it with the Quad 63, Tannoy and others have always built them that way. Manger of Germany is another, going a step further with a bending wave planar point source transducer. Cabasse has come the closest to approximating the theoretical pulsating sphere.* A friend of mine with more than ten US patents in speaker driver design collaborated with Sao Win to produce a coaxial planar driver for a 2-way system. Alas few were actually built because of several technical hurdles, this was 30+ yrs ago. Today we have Andrew Jones' vision of the perfect coax driver by way of TAD and at much lower price point, Mofi Sourcepoint. And of course, Kef. The Blade Metas were in my music room last year and delivered the goods, truly superb speakers by any measure.

*(from AI) A full range pulsating sphere refers to a theoretical acoustic source modeled as a sphere that expands and contracts uniformly across its surface, generating sound waves in all directions across a wide frequency range, essentially acting as a perfect omnidirectional sound source with the ability to reproduce low to high frequencies equally well; it's a common concept used in acoustics to study sound propagation and is considered an ideal point source for theoretical calculations.

 

[kende]

Radian Audio in the USA make Coaxial speakers for pro audio and full range . They make good quality and up to the budget with Beryllium diaphragm. Mine has been modified by Coherent audio Canada .
People "in the know" (like Frank Fazzalari) recognized that the Radian drivers could be capable of superb fidelity, with the right approach. The "tuning" effort -- and the quality of the associated components required to "tame the Radian Beasts" -- however, comes at a high cost. There are other High End manufacturers, particularly in Europe, who also have recognized the potential of these drivers and who use Radian's in their speakers, but in Frank's case, he aimed to market a line of audiophile loudspeakers that was accessibly priced, and which are significantly less expensive than those being offered by his competitors.
Here is the site of the Radian audio.https://radianaudio.com/collections/coaxial-loudspeakers
This is the Canadian . Coherent audio. https://www.coherentspeakers.net/designs-technical-considerations
Have a good reading.

 

[AudioHR]

Radian Audio in the USA make Coaxial speakers for pro audio and full range . They make good quality and up to the budget with Beryllium diaphragm. Mine has been modified by Coherent audio Canada .
People "in the know" (like Frank Fazzalari) recognized that the Radian drivers could be capable of superb fidelity, with the right approach. The "tuning" effort -- and the quality of the associated components required to "tame the Radian Beasts" -- however, comes at a high cost. There are other High End manufacturers, particularly in Europe, who also have recognized the potential of these drivers and who use Radian's in their speakers, but in Frank's case, he aimed to market a line of audiophile loudspeakers that was accessibly priced, and which are significantly less expensive than those being offered by his competitors.
Here is the site of the Radian audio.https://radianaudio.com/collections/coaxial-loudspeakers
This is the Canadian . Coherent audio. https://www.coherentspeakers.net/designs-technical-considerations
Have a good reading.

So to the larger question as to why coaxial speaker are not more popular, I don't know, each to their own perhaps.

@kende is correct in identifying that it is the expertise and execution of the speaker designer that makes the difference. A quality driver is extremely important but how its use is executed in the final product is what makes it special. I think it would be fair to say that many if not most speaker manufacturers purchase stock or special order drivers from those that do it best. So it is the secret sauce that differentiates one from another.

I am quite familiar with the Coherent Audio Speakers having owned both Frank's 15" and 18" models. He has I think done an outstanding job in creating audiophile speakers at an extremely accessible price. Personally based on my listening to hi end speakers in various settings I would say if you are in the SET camp you owe it to yourself to listen to the Coherent speakers. Are there better, of course there are, but you will be paying a huge premium for the sound ... and pride of ownership right, lol!

 

[godofwealth]

The only coaxial speaker I listened to was the baby Kef LS50 Meta, during a trial from Amazon (if memory serves me right). It's an impressive speaker for its size, but the catch, of course, is that there's not a lot of low bass, and the distortion is just way too high for my ears (since I primarily listen to electrostatic loudspeakers, I am far more sensitive to speaker distortion than the vast majority of WBF folks who only listen to box loudspeakers). ASR did a thorough review of the LS 50 Meta:

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Frequency response etc. looks terrific, but as always with box loudspeakers of this size, the killer is the high distortion in the bass, where the speaker can barely resolve 5-6 bits of information, even at relatively low volumes (86 dB is average sensitivity of box loudspeakers). I would love to hear the larger Tannoy's, but they are pretty humongous and quite expensive, so the only real way to do that is to buy a 50 grand loudspeaker, and hope you like it. I haven't rolled that dice yet. I'd like to see detailed measurements on the Tannoy Westminster, particularly bass distortion.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The only coaxial speaker I listened to was the baby Kef LS50 Meta, during a trial from Amazon (if memory serves me right). It's an impressive speaker for its size, but the catch, of course, is that there's not a lot of low bass, and the distortion is just way too high for my ears (since I primarily listen to electrostatic loudspeakers, I am far more sensitive to speaker distortion than the vast majority of WBF folks who only listen to box loudspeakers). ASR did a thorough review of the LS 50 Meta:

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Frequency response etc. looks terrific, but as always with box loudspeakers of this size, the killer is the high distortion in the bass, where the speaker can barely resolve 5-6 bits of information, even at relatively low volumes (86 dB is average sensitivity of box loudspeakers). I would love to hear the larger Tannoy's, but they are pretty humongous and quite expensive, so the only real way to do that is to buy a 50 grand loudspeaker, and hope you like it. I haven't rolled that dice yet. I'd like to see detailed measurements on the Tannoy Westminster, particularly bass distortion.

View attachment 141952

If you like these, in part, try the LS60.

 

[AudioHR]

The only coaxial speaker I listened to was the baby Kef LS50 Meta, during a trial from Amazon (if memory serves me right). It's an impressive speaker for its size, but the catch, of course, is that there's not a lot of low bass, and the distortion is just way too high for my ears (since I primarily listen to electrostatic loudspeakers, I am far more sensitive to speaker distortion than the vast majority of WBF folks who only listen to box loudspeakers). ASR did a thorough review of the LS 50 Meta:

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Frequency response etc. looks terrific, but as always with box loudspeakers of this size, the killer is the high distortion in the bass, where the speaker can barely resolve 5-6 bits of information, even at relatively low volumes (86 dB is average sensitivity of box loudspeakers). I would love to hear the larger Tannoy's, but they are pretty humongous and quite expensive, so the only real way to do that is to buy a 50 grand loudspeaker, and hope you like it. I haven't rolled that dice yet. I'd like to see detailed measurements on the Tannoy Westminster, particularly bass distortion.

View attachment 141952

I haven't heard this speaker but the review would indicate it's a well executed design. One probably shouldn't expect bass to be a strong point in any speaker of this size. I don't think you can really reach and conclusions about coaxial designs in general from this particular speaker.

One thing I did find interesting is the impedance curve and low sensitivity of the L550. The review noted that this speaker would need an amplifier with lots of power. It's a budget speaker but perhaps you would have to pair it up with a fairly capable and more expensive amp to get the best out of it.

The coaxial speakers that I am familiar with are high efficiency and work well with lower wattage amps.

 

[DasguteOhr]

You need a amp with full body sound,they cannot convince with slim analytical sound. My opinion.

Merry xmas..