I’ve never experienced what you’re describing. have you had technically competent confirmation of your suspicions?
Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?
- Thread starter godofwealth
- Start date
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
And you can support these statements? I have not found this to be true at all. My DAC doesn’t even have a power switch and for that matter a fuse. Have rebooted my Zenith after updates and the Echos End just picks up where it left off, sounding fantastic. Please go into more detail of your findings.
Compounded sampling and quantization errors may be a culprit along with timing skew errors in the USB/receiver section.
a couple of very easy ways you can try on your own dac(s).
(1) while playing music, take note of soundstaging size (especially height).
change into another digital input on the dac. the music should stop.
then switch back to the original digital input. then dac takes a few seconds to sync up. music resume.
take note the size of soundstaging (especially height).
any difference?
(2) connect spdif coaxial interface between transport and dac.
while playing music, take note of soundstaging size (especially height).
disconnect coaxial cable. the music should stop.
then plug in again. then dac takes a few seconds to sync up. music resume.
take note the size of soundstaging (especially height).
any difference?
to perform these tests properly, i suggest you use a pure-audio optical disc player
Before loading the test disc, make sure you shut down and re-power up the player (to clear residual memory retention)
after the disc has been loaded and settled, then power up the dac
for this test, the dac must always be powered up after the transport has been refreshed and re-powered up, and then disc loaded.
Use track 1 only
Press play on the front panel
Avoid using remote control
Repeat the power refreshing (clearing residual memory) for each and every time you play the CD.
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Or, you can buy a nice 2-LP 45rpm edition of this 1960s record for $60
Ella Fitzgerald-Let No Man Write My Epitaph-45 RPM Vinyl Record|Acoustic Sounds
Acoustic Sounds Audiophile Vinyl Records
store.acousticsounds.com
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Thanks for pointing that out.
I guess my comment reflected my own hesitation at purchasing original issues that may not have been re-released recently (so not applicable in this case).
By the way, I listened to a digital version of that album last night, on Qobuz, and it sounds good. Perhaps an LP would sound a bit better (or a bit different) but the digital release is "good enough" for me... I could see preferring a mono version, but those don't seem to have been re-issued. When a single instrument (piano, in this case) is split between the two channels I find that a little distracting.
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This is very interesting and suggests a possible path to a better digital experience to explore/research however, it (like many other postings herein) delves into digital technology and doesn’t really apply to the OP.
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this but it appears to me that in most of the previous postings relating in some way to sound presentation between analogue vs digital, the thread eventually gets hijacked into discussions of various aspects of digital technology, each attempting to impress others of greater technical prowess. It suggests (to me) that many on the digital side are not so much audiophiles as technophiles.
Funny, it is mostly certain vinyl enthusiasts who come up with technical arguments. Mostly those are technical arguments against digital, often bogus ones that need to be corrected. Makes me wonder who actually are the "technophiles" here.
Oh really? You always seem to get it wrong.
What I wrote (that you quote) was not that digital enthusiasts used discussions of technology to argue the superiority over analogue (that would be expected in a thread that compares quality of sound reproduction between the two), but rather those entries that only discuss various aspects of digital technology, in other words, what turns them on.
An equally inappropriate entry from analogue lovers would be questions solely related to the technology of analogue reproduction. Example; with MC pickups, whether platinum magnets are really better than rare earth? Or does coral stone actually sound better than jade stone if internals the same?
‘Funny”, you never read an entry carefully first to understand what is being said before you react. What is especially annoying is that you actually believe you are more clever and logical than those whose writing you do not read carefully enough to understand.
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Well, it is only natural that in a thread that attacks digital in favor of the alleged superiority of vinyl eventually there is the development of some technical discussion of what is needed to make digital a satisfying musical experience.
Yet again, it is curious that the first technical arguments, and also perhaps the most discussed and/or persistent ones, on this thread were against digital and in favor of vinyl.
On the other hand, I have not seen a single technical argument on this thread that was brought forth by a digital lover against vinyl in favor of digital. Have you seen one?
The non technical argument for analog is that we live in an analog world, the natural world. Our evolution and experience is based on analog stimuli. In an all analog system, the analog signal is never converted to digital and back to analog. The signal is not sampled into bits and pieces. The OP has a clear preference for the listening experience he has with his vinyl over his digital. The technical posts mostly identify the challenges with digital in what seems to be attempts to explain what the issues are and how they should be addressed. People do also address the challenges with vinyl, as those participating on that panel led by Michael Fremer at Munich did, but those points are not really being made in these types of threads.
Digital is cheaper, much more convenient, and it is portable/streamable. There are clear advantages from a production and delivery perspective. The industry and economy at large are moving in this direction. I am glad that some are trying to address the technical challenges with digital music and describing what those challenges are for those of us less technically inclined. The interesting thing is that vinyl gear is also improving. We still have choices, and are free to make them.
The OP, who has a PhD in computer technology and is presumably well informed about all things digital, wrote that he finds pure analogue always sounds much better than digital, asks if he is delusional.
Producing digital content is cheaper, playback (read Wadex level 4) certainly isn’t.
There are other sub-forums set up already to discuss such; the Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transport, Digital Processing forum, the Computer Based Music Server Forum, The Measurement Based Audio Forum. I would suggest they would be a better place to discuss “the technical challenges with digital music” instead of hijacking the OP’s thread.
I read that you and Al M went to an audition, or something, together and assume you are friends. That is fine and dandy but it reflects poorly on you when you act as his appologist.
I do not think he is delusional. I also prefer the experience of listening to vinyl because it sounds to me much more like live unamplified instruments on the right system.
You miss my point entirely. It is about the production of music music digital is more convenient and cheaper so playback has to reflect the music being produced. I never suggested the outliers are cheap Digital. Mike even prefers his vinyl to this latest and greatest Digital he owns and lives with both. Yes, he listens to Digital more often.
The thread is not hijacked and it’s an open and free discussion and people can discuss whatever they want here within the TOS limits.
Utter nonsense. We are friends, but I’m not an apologist for anyone. (queue up the giggle track from the moon unit.) You are free to reflect on my comments anyway you want.
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Please don’t get me wrong I prefer vinyl over digital and agree with you but vinyl contains conversion too. Electrical signal captured by microphones is converted to motion or vibration by being etched into the grooves during cutting process. The same applies to tape but this time it is converted to magnetic field. So, there is a conversion on all formats but digital causes fatigue for me while analog counterparts don’t.
True, but you could argue that a vinyl groove is a continuous signal, mimicking the nature of analog. With analog tape that argument might be trickier; magnetic particles are just that, particles, i.e., bits and pieces.
My concern is the holders of music rights (and Sony, the inventor of digital CD has bought up most of it) by restricting access to the master tape, but instead selling access to DSD copies of such, are going to eventually eliminate the competition of the superior pure analogue tape and vinyl and monopolise the market. And it would be such a shame to loose the better sounding format forever.
I pointed out how he (Al M) wrote a rebuttal to my note that showed he hadn’t even read it, and his belief that he is so much more clever and logical is not very funny either. I invited him to reply, he didn’t, you did. But your not an apologist for anyone. Yea, right.
I agree that there is conversion, also in the phono stage, but it’s not conversion to digital. It’s the conversion to Digital, which is not found in nature. For some reason, Digital pixels in current tech images is not as much of an issue for me.
You are entitled to your own interpretation of my posts, even if I don't think it is correct. It's a free world.
I think my points speak for themselves, and others will read it that way.
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There is that little bit, no pun intended, that the Brain’s process is digital. Nature has a way of evolving for efficiency and survival.