Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?

[trapper]

I have world class digital and analogue components in my 2 channel room. If I listen to a good quality album and then listen to the same one on my Esoteric Dac is cannot compare to analogue. It just loses the magic I’ll call it. Digital is getting better but just not there yet. It is a lot less trouble than playin a record but just cannot play digital an entire evening without getting a headache

 

[Al M.]

I have world class digital and analogue components in my 2 channel room. If I listen to a good quality album and then listen to the same one on my Esoteric Dac is cannot compare to analogue. It just loses the magic I’ll call it. Digital is getting better but just not there yet. It is a lot less trouble than playin a record but just cannot play digital an entire evening without getting a headache

I guess this again shows different sensibilities of people; nothing wrong with that, it is what it is. I can listen to my digital with great enjoyment for many hours and I literally *never* get a headache from it.

(Of course, I can't speak to whether this is just a difference of personal sensibilities or if a difference in digital set-up/systems plays a role as well.)

 

[facten]

I guess this again shows different sensibilities of people; nothing wrong with that, it is what it is. I can listen to my digital with great enjoyment for many hours and I literally *never* get a headache from it.

(Of course, I can't speak to whether this is just a difference of personal sensibilities or if a difference in digital set-up/systems plays a role as well.)

Like you I listen to digital for hours on end with no literal or figurative headache. But, in the past I tried a DAC (I'll leave the brand out) that was to my ears , pick a term, too detailed, too transparent, or whatever that after an hour or so I found simply fatiguing to listen to. Net net I agree with your digital set up playing a role comment

 

[Lee]

You certain? Take a listen to Rob Watts talk about all the problems with digital reconstruction filters (various YouTube talks) and how he’s trying to solve them with his products and you cannot help but think, “ah, this is why vinyl sounds so good - it already has *all* the critical information that he, and others in their own way, are trying to reconstruct”. I realise this is an appeal to (Rob’s) authority, but he has some interesting insights and his gear is very well regarded, so perhaps he’s on to something? I personally think so, but could be wrong, of course. Anecdotally, the digital chain also seems extremely susceptible to electrical noise that degrades the output. As you attend to these issues digital does seem to get better and better, but you ultimately still run into the reconstruction issue… and that’s the fatal blow, IMO.

I have had conversations about this with Rob.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I have world class digital and analogue components in my 2 channel room. If I listen to a good quality album and then listen to the same one on my Esoteric Dac is cannot compare to analogue. It just loses the magic I’ll call it. Digital is getting better but just not there yet. It is a lot less trouble than playin a record but just cannot play digital an entire evening without getting a headache

i respect that is your personal experience in your system with your digital. and there was a time when i had some feelings very slightly like that. but never to the extent it caused a headache.

i do think overall system performance, along with personal sensitivities, are part of this issue. lots of variables involved....even musical choices and SPL levels.

I guess this again shows different sensibilities of people; nothing wrong with that, it is what it is. I can listen to my digital with great enjoyment for many hours and I literally *never* get a headache from it.

(Of course, I can't speak to whether this is just a difference of personal sensibilities or if a difference in digital set-up/systems plays a role as well.)

love my analog; it has a higher ceiling for magic than digital. but agree with @Al M. that at this point i can listen to digital all day long and weeks at a time and never have any, and i mean zero, digital fatigue. digital captures me and satisfies. there is nothing non musical that has any ill effects.

again; overall system tune level is a factor.

 

[tima]

love my analog; it has a higher ceiling for magic than digital. but agree with @Al M. that at this point i can listen to digital all day long and weeks at a time and never have any, and i mean zero, digital fatigue. digital captures me and satisfies. there is nothing non musical that has any ill effects.

Being hippocratic is fine although doing no harm sets the bar pretty low.

 

[Rexp]

I have world class digital and analogue components in my 2 channel room. If I listen to a good quality album and then listen to the same one on my Esoteric Dac is cannot compare to analogue. It just loses the magic I’ll call it. Digital is getting better but just not there yet. It is a lot less trouble than playin a record but just cannot play digital an entire evening without getting a headache

Does Chamber Music sound good on vinyl but not on digital by any chance?

 

[thedudeabides]

my Esoteric Dac is cannot compare to analogue. A lot less trouble than playin a record but just cannot play digital an entire evening without getting a headache

Ever suspect that the Dac is the issue? Some find that the Esoteric house sound is too detailed, top down FR biased and fatiguing. Could be the reason for your headaches.

 

[Rexp]

Ever suspect that the Dac is the issue? Some find that the Esoteric house sound is too detailed, top down FR biased and fatiguing. Could be the reason for your headaches.

Too detailed? What do you mean?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Being hippocratic

is fine although doing no harm sets the bar pretty low.

in this case, i was limiting my comment to @trapper commenting about digital listening induced headaches. i think i've commented plenty on my very positive digital listening experiences.

i do agree that absence of headaches is not proof of concept for the highest level digital music reproduction. but it is a prerequisite. the point at which music causes pain must be avoided.

 

[Al M.]

i do think overall system performance, along with personal sensitivities, are part of this issue. lots of variables involved....even musical choices and SPL levels.

Low SPL are definitely not the reason for my lack of digital fatigue. I listen loudly; orchestral peaks are up to 100 dBC, or at times even up to 103 dBC (calibrated Reed SPL meter).

(And no, I am not killing my ears; I take great care not to exceed NIOSH recommendations for maximum daily exposure, in dBA levels.)

But like you, I have taken great care of my room acoustics, also in order to minimize room-induced distortions. I also had to carefully tune loudspeaker positioning in that respect; distortion at high volume is now really low.

 

[Kingrex]

Yes many consumers don't want their music to sound like the real thing, they like to add their own seasoning. That's fine but these people are not in the High Fidelity Audio hobby. Some recordings sound better on a boombox than a high end system so just play them on the boombox.

What do you consider to be a high fidelity audio person? What sort of equipment would they own?

 

[Al M.]

When you asked me to provide objective proof regarding my posts (wealthy people buying trophy audio systems, with no interest in audio quality, to impress friends) in the $100K Speaker Cable Thread, Post No. 36 was not about grammar at aĺl but about you trying to "nail" me to the cross. A personal and pointed attack about my honesty and credibility. Have you forgotten about that? I haven't. Have a great day.

And why on earth do you care about people's grammar? I assume you have better things to do with your time.

Ron is actually wrong on the issue of "could care less" vs "couldn't care less" discussed in that post. They are both valid and they are synonymous, according to Merriam Webster:

Is it 'could' or 'couldn't care less'?

Can you care fewer?

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Rexp]

What do you consider to be a high fidelity audio person? What sort of equipment would they own?

A bit like a food connoisseur who wouldn't bring ketchup to a Michelin starred restaurant, anyway since this is off topic I'll leave it there.

 

[Holmz]

A bit like a food connoisseur who wouldn't bring ketchup to a Michelin starred restaurant, anyway since this is off topic I'll leave it there.

Who, Da Fck, would even consider using ketchup on pop-corn?

 

[Kingrex]

I was on another forum talking about BACCH. Made me wonder, if one were to believe analog is superior, what would said person say about DSP/BACCH? What would they say about an active preamp and direct coupled drivers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron is actually wrong on the issue of "could care less" vs "couldn't care less" discussed in that post. They are both valid and they are synonymous, according to Merriam Webster:

Is it 'could' or 'couldn't care less'?

Can you care fewer?

www.merriam-webster.com

The illogical dumbing down of a term may have become de facto "valid" due to widespread lazy usage but it doesn't make it correct.

 

[Ron Resnick]

but about you trying to "nail" me to the cross.

A little overwrought, no?

A personal and pointed attack about my honesty and credibility.

An "attack"? A little overwrought, no?

Have you forgotten about that? I haven't.

I thought Aussies were famous for being chill?

Seriously, I apologize for offending you.

 

[rDin]

Are you one of those who is always right and those who have a different, opposing opinion are wrong? And who are you trying to convince otherwise? What is the purpose of your contnious anti digital rant? And who are you preaching to other than yourself?

Dude!! Very un-dude! To clarify, I'm "one of those" who is interested in *good faith* conversation (which your comment isn't, btw). By all means challenge *my arguments*, but keep the comments relevant. This is one of the better forums for good faith discussion. Let's try to keep it that way: personal attacks and bad faith tactics only serve to sidetrack meaningful conversations.

 

[Al M.]

The illogical dumbing down of a term may have become de facto "valid" due to widespread lazy usage but it doesn't make it correct.

Yes, it *does*, Ron. Merriam Webster says so, it's official.

So yes, you are officially wrong on this one.