Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?

[tima]

The advances with digital differs from that of analog sources. Analog has been around for long time. Digital? Not so much, so they are discovering and advancing just like they did with analog back in the day.

So given all the current technology... in effect the new digital technology, including powerful computers with CAD and engineering software ... the pace of development hasn't changed? I think it has changed for the quicker. But we were talking about the rate at which end-users replace or upgrade their analog or digital front-ends.

In the case of stereo cartridges, these are consumables; they are only good for a certain number of hours. Tonearms don't turn over that often and those are dependent on the availability of armboards such that options are limited to the armboards the turntable manufacturer has available. Imo turntables do get replaced but not that often, same with phonostages. People do roll tubes in tubed based phonostages but I'm not including tweaks in my speculation.

This is not about preferences -- although given the reactions some may take it that way.

 

[tima]

The lack of maturity of streaming is one of several reasons why so far I have avoided it in my system. But streaming is getting better than it used to be, for sure, and in some instances even can be great.

Yes. If I was actively doing digital I think I'd still do CDs although I hear their production has dropped off from what it once was. I continue to own maybe 1000 CDs. I like to own the media itself and after doing computer technology for 40+ years I don't think I want to own media that is dependent on electricity for its existence.

I will tell you a little secret. I have a CD player new / un-opened / sealed box that I bought a few years back in case I go blind and can no longer mount a cartridge or place a stylus in the groove. Happily my eye-sight remains good though I wear glasses. I did use CDs to break in those Atma-Sphere Class D amps I recently reviewed. They required 500 hours to break-in.

 

[tima]

Or maybe I am Ron, showing a completely different way of music and record preference and audition process and being anti video

completely

 

[bonzo75]

Yes. If I was actively doing digital I think I'd still do CDs

If I am using digital I am fine to stream and use a dac, the whole purpose of digital is convenience, and streamers can sonically compete with CD players . Until it gets past a certain price point for analog.

 

[tima]

If I am using digital I am fine to stream and use a dac, the whole purpose of digital is convenience, and streamers can sonically compete with CD players . Until it gets past a certain price point for analog.

I agree that digital is convenient, point and click. But I'm used to getting up and flipping a record so no problemo. Would you buy what you stream ?

 

[bonzo75]

I agree that digital is convenient, point and click. But I'm used to getting up and flipping a record so no problemo. Would you buy what you stream ?

If there are some good quality digital downloads, yes, for streaming.

 

[hopkins]

I agree that digital is convenient, point and click. But I'm used to getting up and flipping a record so no problemo. Would you buy what you stream ?

You only listen to music that is available on analog?

 

[Al M.]

I will tell you a little secret. I have a CD player new / un-opened / sealed box that I bought a few years back in case I go blind and can no longer mount a cartridge or place a stylus in the groove. Happily my eye-sight remains good though I wear glasses. I did use CDs to break in those Atma-Sphere Class D amps I recently reviewed. They required 500 hours to break-in.

Let's hope you keep your eyesight and health for a long time.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The lack of maturity of streaming is one of several reasons why so far I have avoided it in my system. But streaming is getting better than it used to be, for sure, and in some instances even can be great.

streaming is consistently great now. it's mature. and @Al M. , you are not getting any younger. neither am i. streaming is easy to add. the price/value curve is in a good spot.

on Monday i had a couple of visitors. a local audiophile friend (WBF member) and a friend he brought. when discussing the system for his friend i mentioned i now have a new CD transport, and they asked me to compare it to my streaming. so i played a CD through the Wadax dac, and then the streaming 16/44 MQA file thru the whole Level 4 Wadax. the CD sounded good, but the streaming was clearly quite a bit better. if we did not have the streaming to immediately compare, nothing lacking in the CD playback. it was good.

this is my personal experience. i've done many transport<->streaming compares. at a high enough level of CD transport might it come up to equal? i can't say. maybe. glad i have the transport with my 3500 CD's and 1000 SACD's. discs are good. some music is only on them.

my new TEAC VRDS transport is good. and i also have my $30k Esoteric Clock connected with a high quality Shunyata Omega Clock 50 digital cable. if Wadax adds a reasonably priced transport "only" to their 'Studio' line up i might spring for that so i can have the Wadax proprietary interface for CD and SACD. but the price will need to be comfortable. the big bad Wadax Ref transport is not in the cards.

you don't know what you don't know. but no one can claim that streaming is not awesome for content and quality, and the best thing that has happened for music lovers in a long time. not just convenient.

 

[treitz3]

For me, it's a toss up between CD and streaming. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that it all boils down to the recording and version of a particular selection.

For instance. A certain song by Nina Samone sounds great on streaming. Definitely audiophile quality, but I have the same CD and it is bad. Conversely, some selections from Pink Floyd sounds decent on streaming but rocks my world on CD.

Streaming has just opened up a world of new discoveries for me. But like you, some of the things I have on physical music just isn't available via streaming. Probably never will be either. So both are a must have in my book. Same with vinyl.

Tom

 

[Al M.]

streaming is consistently great now.

I had said in the post that you replied to that "in some instances [streaming] even can be great".

*Your* streaming may be consistently great, but this does not contradict my statement. Your streaming may be one of those instances. It also comes at a very substantial financial expense.

I have heard enough streaming that has problems, including major ones that resulted in an artificial, synthetic sound. But as I also said, streaming is getting better.

 

[John T]

Back to the system, I can not tell the difference between a well recorded track streaming vs CD...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I had said in the post that you replied to that "in some instances [streaming] even can be great".

*Your* streaming may be consistently great, but this does not contradict my statement. Your streaming also comes at a very substantial financial expense.

I have heard enough streaming that has problems, including major ones that resulted in an artificial, synthetic sound. But as I also said, streaming is getting better.

fair enough. go to your local dealer and get a streaming/transport demo at different price points.....in the same system. see if one hit's your budget.

or not.

the music is calling.

 

[Rexp]

For me, it's a toss up between CD and streaming. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that it all boils down to the recording and version of a particular selection.

For instance. A certain song by Nina Samone sounds great on streaming. Definitely audiophile quality, but I have the same CD and it is bad. Conversely, some selections from Pink Floyd sounds decent on streaming but rocks my world on CD.

Streaming has just opened up a world of new discoveries for me. But like you, some of the things I have on physical music just isn't available via streaming. Probably never will be either. So both are a must have in my book. Same with vinyl.

Tom

Which Nina Simone album are you referring to please?

 

[Kingrex]

The rate of new and change seems higher with digital audio. Why do you have a problem with that?

I don't see the rate of change of digital equipment, overall, higher than vinyl.

I see where my focus and enjoyment is, impacts where I put my money. For a long time I dumped money into vinyl. All sorts of change and $$ invested. I'm satisfied with where its at and don't want to spend the tens of thousands necessary to move the needle higher.
As digital has become more popular, the focus of threads have shifted to digital. That makes it appear to be fraught with constant change. I think people talk less about their vinyl. Maybe because they feel good about what they have, and they are focused on digital now.

I believe the perception that digital users are constantly changing is rooted in, digital has become so good, people are ignoring their vinyl and playing digital. That shifts your focus and spending. No matter what we touch as audiophile, we want to tweak it. Get the most from it. If digital is the focus, that is where our tweaking and dollars go. That does not mean as a overall compare of tweaking and turn over of parts, one or the other source is excessively greater than the other. To me, I means the focus is on digitql now. I believe its on digital because most people in their own systems can't detect a consistent preference for one or the other. The source file still remains the most important determinant of what plays best.

FWIW, I bought a brass shim from JR yesterday I am also looking at a new rack to hold my TT.

 

[treitz3]

Which Nina Simone album are you referring to please?

Well, it really isn't an album I was referring to. It was more of one of her selections. "Strange Fruit".

Tom

 

[Rexp]

Well, it really isn't an album I was referring to. It was more of one of her selections. "Strange Fruit".

Tom

Sure, from which album?

 

[treitz3]

Sure, from which album?

Unfortunately, I can't answer that off the top of my head. I would have to go look.....and that one is on a playlist that has a PLETHORA of music on it. I think I threw the CD out. It was bad.

It's this version (not sure of the album...You Tube might be able to tell you) - https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/strange-fruit-nina-simone.34154/ (first post video). I love this ladies voice and the recording on Qobuz is top notch. Lots of history on this one as well.

Tom

 

[tima]

Let's hope you keep your eyesight and health for a long time.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I wish the same for you.

 

[godofwealth]

streaming is consistently great now. it's mature. and @Al M. , you are not getting any younger. neither am i. streaming is easy to add. the price/value curve is in a good spot.

on Monday i had a couple of visitors. a local audiophile friend (WBF member) and a friend he brought. when discussing the system for his friend i mentioned i now have a new CD transport, and they asked me to compare it to my streaming. so i played a CD through the Wadax dac, and then the streaming 16/44 MQA file thru the whole Level 4 Wadax. the CD sounded good, but the streaming was clearly quite a bit better. if we did not have the streaming to immediately compare, nothing lacking in the CD playback. it was good.

this is my personal experience. i've done many transport<->streaming compares. at a high enough level of CD transport might it come up to equal? i can't say. maybe. glad i have the transport with my 3500 CD's and 1000 SACD's. discs are good. some music is only on them.

my new TEAC VRDS transport is good. and i also have my $30k Esoteric Clock connected with a high quality Shunyata Omega Clock 50 digital cable. if Wadax adds a reasonably priced transport "only" to their 'Studio' line up i might spring for that so i can have the Wadax proprietary interface for CD and SACD. but the price will need to be comfortable. the big bad Wadax Ref transport is not in the cards.

you don't know what you don't know. but no one can claim that streaming is not awesome for content and quality, and the best thing that has happened for music lovers in a long time. not just convenient.

Absolutely agree that streaming of high resolution music is an absolute game changer in high end audio. It makes it possible to finally sample original masters as they have been recorded, not diluted down to 16-bit 44.1 kHz. All audiophiles should celebrate this advancement, which came about from many decades of scientific breakthroughs in hardware and software. Being a lifetime member of Roon has certainly changed my life for the better.

The nuances are where high end audio lives, and perhaps that’s where some of discussion has centered. I’m a bit disappointed that high resolution music streaming did not turn out to be so great that I can finally throw away all my turntables and vinyl records. Yes, high res is better than CD on some recordings and certainly more convenient than playing a record but not good enough yet that I’d throw away my vinyl or my CD collection.

Case in point: I’m listening now to a tenor saxophonist Hank Mobley via streaming and I don’t have any of his albums on CD or vinyl. Streaming makes this possible. The next time I’m in SF, I’m motivated to find his vinyl in my usual used record stores. Or his CDs. Then I’m in a position to compare. But streaming is perfect for sampling a wide range of music in all formats. I’m delighted we have this technology and would not want to be without it.