Why the lack of love for Bartok?

[thedudeabides]

I hold the opinion that Bartok is over rated and pretentious.The compositions ask no questions and provide no answers.

With all due respect and IMHO, I find your view of Bartok's music to be overly presumptuous, myopic and pretentious.

Chacon a son gout

 

[Al M.]

With all due respect and IMHO, I find your view of Bartok's music to be overly presumptuous, myopic and pretentious.

Oh, but lest we forget his view is the voice of exquisite, tasteful "high culture".

 

[bonzo75]

30th of May I went to barbican to watch Julia Fischer do the Beethoven concerto, which was very nice, and then Pagannini second caprice for encore (i usually start my auditions using the second caprice). I vaguely remembered the second half was not something I wanted to watch when I had bought the ticket, but on the day I had forgotten what was on in the second half. The main reason to go for that concert was the Julia Fischer Beethoven.

Both my gf and I thought the second half was awful. Then I looked at the booklet and it said Bartok concerto for Orchestra.

 

[Al M.]

Both my gf and I thought the second half was awful. Then I looked at the booklet and it said Bartok concerto for Orchestra.

I don't get it. At the same time you like Led Zeppelin.

 

[astrotoy]

I really can't remember her name. She played the Viola iirc and this was about 1966. Maybe Krips and Ozawa conducted her,but her level of understanding Classical music was impressive. One of the teachers in my life that made a profound difference. This was in Belmont.

Well I have never had a La Tache. The 1966 Romanee Conti was a spiritual experience for me and my brother. We both felt that the wine exhibited a earthy complexity and breed that the vines brought forth as if they were planted at the time of Christ on Earth. I have only drank a few wines with breed and complexity that even came close,but none matched the Conti, all old vines....pre phylloxera.

Thanks, Roger. I came to the Bay Area for grad school in 1967 and bought a student series for the SFS when Joseph Krips was still the music director. So I am sure I heard and saw your teacher play. A few years later Ozawa was a guest conductor and the SFS hired him, I think, in 1972 as the next Music Director. Boston grabbed him after another 3 or 4 years, but he kept both positions until the late '70's when he went to Boston full time. There are still two or three members of the current orchestra who were hired by Ozawa, none from the Krips era are still around.

Larry

 

[thedudeabides]

I don't understand this "composer bashing". Can someone please explain why. Seems like this could be WBF's version of "kicking the dog".

One composer I like, which I'm sure many don't, is George Crumb. Try "Haunted Landscapes". Have at it gentlemen.

 

[Al M.]

I don't understand this "composer bashing". Can someone please explain why. Seems like this could be WBF's version of "kicking the dog".

Why? It is to save Western High Civilization from the onslaught of barbaric dissonance and cacophony. It is High Culture against the wannabees. The supreme reign of melody against lower standards.

 

[spiritofmusic]

You'd think someone was ranking Katy Perry and Nina Simone.

 

[bonzo75]

I don't understand this "composer bashing". Can someone please explain why. Seems like this could be WBF's version of "kicking the dog".

One composer I like, which I'm sure many don't, is George Crumb. Try "Haunted Landscapes". Have at it gentlemen.

When a thread is started with the subject why the lack of love for Bartok, what do you expect?

 

[microstrip]

I don't understand this "composer bashing". Can someone please explain why. (...)

I will risk an explanation. Perhaps Bartok and some other very dynamic and less melodic composers are not too well served by vinyl and excel on digital, sometimes played by young performers that challenge the old masters or those who are considered the "best" performers.

 

[bonzo75]

I will risk an explanation. Perhaps Bartok and some other very dynamic and less melodic composers are not too well served by vinyl and excel on digital, sometimes played by young performers that challenge the old masters or those who are considered the "best" performers.

Incorrect. I was referring to Bartok live, and actually, Bartok vinyl is excellent. It is in much better condition than the other originals (possibly because few people play it), and it makes the system sound very impressive with slam bang precision effect. You should really investigate and write, instead of putting forth an incorrect theory because it serves your purpose of incorrectly positioning vinyl with respect to digital

 

[Al M.]

I will risk an explanation. Perhaps Bartok and some other very dynamic and less melodic composers are not too well served by vinyl and excel on digital, sometimes played by young performers that challenge the old masters or those who are considered the "best" performers.

The latter certainly. There are many more recent performers who successfully challenge the old masters. The so-called "golden age" of performers is far over-rated. For example, I love Dorati in many things, but his Haydn Symphonies cycle, which was groundbreaking at its time, had been a favorite of mine for decades and still has to be considered as very good, is in my view eclipsed in most aspects by the cycle with Dennis Russell Davies conducting the Chamber Orchestra Stuttgart, released in 2009. Unfortunately, this cycle is not available on vinyl, and thus by definition cannot be as good , in spite of what I just said.

 

[Al M.]

instead of putting forth an incorrect theory because it serves your purpose of incorrectly positioning vinyl with respect to digital

If Francisco would really dislike vinyl that much, he would not recently have bought a TechDas Air Force One Premium turntable, would he?

 

[bonzo75]

If Francisco would really dislike vinyl that much, he would not recently have bought a TechDas Air Force One Premium turntable, would he?

He bought it so he could say that dCS is better.

 

[microstrip]

Incorrect. I was referring to Bartok live, and actually, Bartok vinyl is excellent. It is in much better condition than the other originals (possibly because few people play it), and it makes the system sound very impressive with slam bang precision effect. You should really investigate and write, instead of putting forth an incorrect theory because it serves your purpose of incorrectly positioning vinyl with respect to digital

I was not addressing your comments, there were much more interesting ones on this subject in this particular WBF thread... Sorry!

 

[microstrip]

He bought it so he could say that dCS is better.

Wrong again, as usual - for this purpose I have two Studer A80's ...

And I always say which I prefer, not which is better.

 

[wil]

I don't understand this "composer bashing". Can someone please explain why. Seems like this could be WBF's version of "kicking the dog".

One composer I like, which I'm sure many don't, is George Crumb. Try "Haunted Landscapes". Have at it gentlemen.

I agree -- George Crumb has given us some great music.

 

[Al M.]

One composer I like, which I'm sure many don't, is George Crumb. Try "Haunted Landscapes". Have at it gentlemen.

I've heard his sonata for solo cello and liked it.

 

[KeithR]

what is the quintessential Bartok recording? I'll stream in on Tidal tonight.

 

[microstrip]

what is the quintessential Bartok recording? I'll stream in on Tidal tonight.

You will find a few recommended recordings in this link https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/top-10-bartok-recordings

I own several of them and I find difficult to pick just one of them. I think I can say that the first one is the most often referred recording.