ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458

[andromedaaudio]

People here seem to forget its the combination , the darts on another kind of speaker might be a less a good a match .
Audiophiles seem to want to put everything in a box with a no 1 on it
Mike seems to be quite good at matching and building.

A lot of variables in a audiossytem ;Listener ,type of music , Room , X over , speakermembrane , housing material , SS, tubes , source ,....etc etc and on and on.
Hard to bring that message with words on a website .

 

[microstrip]

Dear Ron,

How did you arrive to the conclusion that the amps are colorless? How do you know that the other two amps add color to the music and not the Dartz decloring the music. In my opinion, music is colorful. Why do you think that the musical color the Lamm or VAC presents are "color added" and not the natural color of the music itself. Or do you find the color of real instrument is more alike what comes out of Dartz. And what come out of the other two is just too nice to be real.

I ask just because I am just curious of the process and want to get better at analytical listening. I dont really care about deciding which amps has more strengths or weaknesses or defending any amp.

Your sincerely,
Tang

Good points, as usual - IMHO we have to live without the absolute "truth" in the high-end. All amps add color - in my experience, an all DartZeel system (NHB108-NHB458) sounds different from the current Constellation Audio Altair/Hercules. It is nor relevant to this thread what of those "colorations" I prefer or find more natural in my system, Mike found he prefers the great NHB458's and tuned his system around them. I am really enjoying learning the why's and the compromises and virtues of having each of those great amplifiers. My questions are mainly raised to understand them better.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I d love to say Full range Musical flow would be a universal thruth .
But i ve seen heard audiophiles / dealers / distibutors throwing heaps of money at it and it still sounded crap .
Speakerbuilding is a craft , amp building is a craft , building a system is also a craft and it all needs dedication off course

 

[andromedaaudio]

Ps I forgot to mention selling cars is also a craft
I m not good at it i always lose lots of money on trade ins

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ps I forgot to mention selling cars is also a craft
I m not good at it i always lose lots of money on trade ins

I don't want to really derail this thread, but the car business is the people business mostly. and trade-in's are where the dealer makes money; both in the reconditioning, and the margin from purchase to sale. where the new car side most dealers barely break even or even lose money. but the principle involved in a trade-in is wholesale 'cash value'. any more than that for your trade-in and it's really an added discount on the retail car you purchased as the used car inventory must be valued at cash value. any dealer who invests more in used car inventory than the cash value will not be a dealer for long, as the value just sitting on his lot will depreciate while it's in his inventory. he has a 60 day window to sell it, or he will lose money there too.

the only way you get a high value for your trade-in is if the new car is over valued relative to the market. so if you are pushing hard on the new car side of the price, your trade value will be 'net'.

I promise this is the last car biz talk of this thread.

 

[andromedaaudio]

At least the tube itch seems to be scratched

 

[Mike Lavigne]

At least the tube itch seems to be scratched

check and double check. it has been properly scratched.

 

[Tango]

check and double check. it has been properly scratched.

Dear Mike,

You may no longer itch. But in the process of your scratching, you created a rash on me and possible opportunity arises on Boon.

Tang

 

[Tango]

The objective of my trip to Seattle was not Mike. It was to listen to apogee full ranges on Nat. Mike was secondary. Sterile state guy with fancy colored toys, been there, heard that before. It totally turned upside down my frame of thinking. Btw, Jazzhead now has a very good small room SS system, thanks to mooks ??

You are unbelievable Mr. Bonzo. We can just be talking about anything, yet you manage to swing a 180 degree back to Mook.

Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Dear Mike,

You may no longer itch. But in the process of your scratching, you created a rash on me and possible opportunity arises on Boon.

Tang

Dear Tang,

sorry to infect you. not sure there is a cure.

I know I've not found one.

best regards,

Mike

 

[Lagonda]

Dear Mike,

You may no longer itch. But in the process of your scratching, you created a rash on me and possible opportunity arises on Boon.

Tang

Tango, don’t you need a living room system ? You have your office partly covered with 3 turntables, what about your living room ? Maybe cones, and solid state !

 

[Tango]

Tango, don’t you need a living room system ? You have your office partly covered with 3 turntables, what about your living room ? Maybe cones, and solid state !

Hello Lagonda,

I am living in a small condo with just 200 sq meter space so I only have a Bose Lifestyle in my living room. I plan to build a new house with a dedicated listening room above the car garage. Then I will have a space to play Ying Yang like Mike .

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hello Lagonda,

I am living in a small condo with just 200 sq meter space so I only have a Bose Lifestyle in my living room. I plan to build a new house with a dedicated listening room above the car garage. Then I will have a space to play Ying Yang like Mike .

Kind regards,
Tang

Dear Tang,

can't wait to see that. it will be epic.

best regards,

Mike

 

[Lagonda]

Hello Lagonda,

I am living in a small condo with just 200 sq meter space so I only have a Bose Lifestyle in my living room. I plan to build a new house with a dedicated listening room above the car garage. Then I will have a space to play Ying Yang like Mike .

Kind regards,
Tang

200 sq meter is not exactly small ! Not in Europe. Biggest problem with apartments are the neighbors, I hope they share your taste in music !

Sincerely
Milan

 

[andromedaaudio]

I ve heard you can have a suspended room built acoustically treated within an appartmentbuilding with next to 0 , soundleakage

 

[microstrip]

I ve heard you can have a suspended room built acoustically treated within an appartmentbuilding with next to 0 , soundleakage

Besides cost, the main problem is that it takes out a lot of space - you start with a medium room and end with a small room!

 

[Tango]

I ve heard you can have a suspended room built acoustically treated within an appartmentbuilding with next to 0 , soundleakage

The problem is not the neighbor sir. At home my wife rules. Even in a new house, my freedom is likely only within the vicinity of the garage.

Tang

 

[andromedaaudio]

Besides cost, the main problem is that it takes out a lot of space - you start with a medium room and end with a small room!

Haha tango.

Microstrip with a smaller room you need smaller speakers too , costsave .lol

 

[microstrip]

Haha tango.

Microstrip with a smaller room you need smaller speakers too , costsave .lol

No, no! Otherwise you will also tell us that next we need smaller ears ...

 

[bonzo75]

No, no! Otherwise you will also tell us that next we need smaller ears ...

With smaller ears you won't notice the problems bigger speakers cause in smaller rooms