Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Zeotrope]

My rack is rock solid and doesn’t sway. Weighs well over 500 lbs. Top shelf is where mine will stay. If i were concerned about sway I’d have it on the bottom. But I’m not and I don’t.

There are floor micro vibrations (which is why vibration isolation is so important) that will be amplified if the object is further away from the ground. It’s just physics.

 

[joet]

of course you know the sound and impac

My rack is rock solid and doesn’t sway. Weighs well over 500 lbs. Top shelf is where mine will stay. If i were concerned about sway I’d have it on the bottom. But I’m not and I don’t.I also have footers under my Extreme as well.

Of course you know the sound and impact of your components and furniture, so im sure you’re right, and I have no idea of the impact of sway. However, having worked on the 17th floor of an office building for many years, everything sways.

 

[ctydwn]

I think the Extreme (and the Horizon) are striking looking regardless of placement. And confirmed, sound incredible. Taiko switch patiently awaiting his router and power distributor siblings on middle shelf….

 

[Steve Williams]

of course you know the sound and impac

Of course you know the sound and impact of your components and furniture, so im sure you’re right, and I have no idea of the impact of sway. However, having worked on the 17th floor of an office building for many years, everything sways.

I can’t disagree however I’ve never been happier with my sound so for me that’s all that matters. My footers are based in principle on always seeking a new point of equilibrium .

 

[QuantumWave]

There are floor micro vibrations (which is why vibration isolation is so important) that will be amplified if the object is further away from the ground. It’s just physics.

That makes a lot of sense! But what is less intuitive is that height might also act as a low-pass filter, I like this video below that feeds into the discussion in Japan tower versus small unit discussion,
with respect to earthcake safety:

It will all be a matter of length scales (1.5m), mass (50Kg) and frequency (kHz, Mhz ?) and damping (Hz?). Another effect to consider is inertia damping, for example the famous example is the 101 tower in Taipei, a
typhoon counter measure. If you ever get to visit Taiwan, it’s very impressive to see in action:

Slightly far from the Taiko thread, just in case of interest!

 

[Steve Williams]

There are floor micro vibrations (which is why vibration isolation is so important) that will be amplified if the object is further away from the ground. It’s just physics.

My racks and footers are based on vibration isolation

 

[Steve Williams]

FWIW Emile serves as my mantra and I have followed and agreed with him on everything and understand why he makes the recommendation. However my Extreme is top shelf quality and that’s where it sits along with my TT, Tape Deck, DAC and Extreme. All sit on their own set of footers as well as their own dedicated shelf. I’m sure everyone is correct in what they are posting but I just don’t have that concern. Each shelf and set of footers is soundly based on vibration isolation and do their job in exemplary fashion. I love looking at my Extreme. Top shelf

 

[CKKeung]

Some of my Extreme owner frds and I myself place the Extreme on anti-vibration platforms.
IMHO whether passive or active, these platforms usually bring about sonic improvement.

Here is my Extreme on a Seismion active anti-vibration platform :

 

[oldmustang]

That makes a lot of sense! But what is less intuitive is that height might also act as a low-pass filter, I like this video below that feeds into the discussion in Japan tower versus small unit discussion,
with respect to earthcake safety:

It will all be a matter of length scales (1.5m), mass (50Kg) and frequency (kHz, Mhz ?) and damping (Hz?). Another effect to consider is inertia damping, for example the famous example is the 101 tower in Taipei, a
typhoon counter measure. If you ever get to visit Taiwan, it’s very impressive to see in action:

Slightly far from the Taiko thread, just in case of interest!

Which is why the efficacy of any vibration or damping device, stand or system will be uniquely dependent on the many variables making up each installation -- the components' mass, their moment, the structure of the floor and room.

I appreciate reviews and anecdotal accounts of what works for people but at the end of the day while we might with enough anecdotes find some common trends across devices, ultimately what works best will be determined by each individual and their goals and sonic priorities.

Steve Z

 

[earlinarizona]

With 942 pages I may be too old by that time to ask a question that has probably covered.
If the Extreme is hooked to a good Switch/ Router and an audiophile ethernet cable, can the streaming sound as good as Red Book rips to the server memory. Is it that close now or not. This would also apply if you download a 24/96 to the hard drive. Will it sound better then streaming?

 

[EuroDriver]

That makes a lot of sense! But what is less intuitive is that height might also act as a low-pass filter, I like this video below that feeds into the discussion in Japan tower versus small unit discussion,
with respect to earthcake safety:

It will all be a matter of length scales (1.5m), mass (50Kg) and frequency (kHz, Mhz ?) and damping (Hz?). Another effect to consider is inertia damping, for example the famous example is the 101 tower in Taipei, a
typhoon counter measure. If you ever get to visit Taiwan, it’s very impressive to see in action:

Slightly far from the Taiko thread, just in case of interest!

Hi QuantumWave,

Another great insight, many thanks

Best Regards

Ed

 

[SwissTom]

Where conventional audiophile "wisdom" would have you think a smaller antenna is better, that is in fact not necessarily true, as what happens is that a smaller antenna may need more transmitter power which in turn increases noise. The same really goes for 2.4G vs 5G Wi-Fi, 5G needs more transmitter power due to it's shorter range which is most likely the actual cause of the notion that 5G is bad for SQ. Evidence currently points towards SQ being mainly impacted by a combination of antenna to device connection quality and the transmitter power this requires. We're going to optimize this for optimal in room performance.

The antenna problem/choice is an interesting topic.

I don't know much about the subject, but shouldn't the antenna be a fraction of the wavelength (1/2, 1/4, etc.)?

The wavelength corresponding to 2.4 Ghz is roughly 12 cm, which would give antennas of 6, 3, 2 cm. And so on.

There also seems to be a relation between antenna length and directivity, not to mention impedance.

In short, I can imagine that it won't be easy to choose, as all this will ultimately have an impact on sound.

It'll be interesting to hear how you arrived at your final choice. Purely by listening or/and on more practical criteria?

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[Steve Williams]

Which is why the efficacy of any vibration or damping device, stand or system will be uniquely dependent on the many variables making up each installation -- the components' mass, their moment, the structure of the floor and room.

I appreciate reviews and anecdotal accounts of what works for people but at the end of the day while we might with enough anecdotes find some common trends across devices, ultimately what works best will be determined by each individual and their goals and sonic priorities.

Steve Z

I have absolute confidence in my rack which is a horizontal rack completely joined . As stated I have my Tech Das AF1, Studer A810, Lampi Horizon and Taiko Extreme on the top 4 shelves. I have had people in my room listening to vinyl and while we were I was doing a fast rewind of a tape on the shelf next to the Tech Das which was playing a record. There was not even a hiccup. IOW the rapid motion of a rewinding tape reel sitting on the adjacent shelf could not be herd nor did it once disrupt the playing of the record.I have show this little trick many times to show the build quality and efficacy of my rack

 

[Zeotrope]

That makes a lot of sense! But what is less intuitive is that height might also act as a low-pass filter, I like this video below that feeds into the discussion in Japan tower versus small unit discussion,
with respect to earthcake safety:

It will all be a matter of length scales (1.5m), mass (50Kg) and frequency (kHz, Mhz ?) and damping (Hz?). Another effect to consider is inertia damping, for example the famous example is the 101 tower in Taipei, a
typhoon counter measure. If you ever get to visit Taiwan, it’s very impressive to see in action:

Slightly far from the Taiko thread, just in case of interest!

Active damper in Taipei 101 is a moving pendulum. I think this is the approach that Seismion or other active isolation devices effectively take - they counteract a movement in one direction with an opposite movement in the other direction.

Even with an active system, the closer you are to the center of gravity (i.e., the floor, in this case), the lower the vibration and the better the sound.

Placing the Extreme as low as possible is in fact a suggestion from Emile (I am not smart enough to think of it!).
Page 36 of the manual: “The Extreme is heavy and should be placed on a vibration controlled shelf which is as close to the floor as possible.”

Sounding “great” on the top shelf is great, but vibration will be lower on the lower shelf. Lower vibration = better sound. It’s not debatable, it’s just science

 

[Steve Williams]

That makes a lot of sense! But what is less intuitive is that height might also act as a low-pass filter, I like this video below that feeds into the discussion in Japan tower versus small unit discussion,
with respect to earthcake safety:

It will all be a matter of length scales (1.5m), mass (50Kg) and frequency (kHz, Mhz ?) and damping (Hz?). Another effect to consider is inertia damping, for example the famous example is the 101 tower in Taipei, a
typhoon counter measure. If you ever get to visit Taiwan, it’s very impressive to see in action:

Slightly far from the Taiko thread, just in case of interest!

There is a very tall apartment building in San Francisco just at the foot of there SF Bay Bridge which solved the problem in a similar fashion

Roof Top Firewater Tank Prevents Building Sway in Bay Area Winds | FRP

Rooftop firewater tank does double duty as rooftop fire suppression water tank and building sway stabilization in high winds.

www.piconfrp.com

 

[Steve Williams]

Last week I had the honor of hosting one of my best amigos JackD201 from Manila. Jack has been to my house when I lived in the SF Bay Area about 15 years ago. I stayed with Jack about 5 years ago after the Hong Kong audio Show. I have gone on record here saying that the two best systems in the galaxy are those owned by Jack and his older brother Jim. There is nothing I have heard anywhere that comes close to either of their systems. Jack is also a trained acoustician amongst his many other talents. Below is a link to a post Jack put up in my member's blog. Jack is primarily all vinyl but has the TOTL Ch Precision gear and had never heard the Extreme. I have had many guests recently who cannot distinguish files played from my internal library to similar files streamed. Many have gone so far in saying that it has become spooky close to vinyl with many of my recent changes along with new tubes for my Horizon. Jack is also a member Congress and in his spare time he and 2 others are partners in a major audio distributorship in Philippines. It was through Jack that I was introduced 5 years ago to Critical Mass Systems and ultimately Center Stage footers. So Jack has heard my system twice, once each in different houses and with major updates to my racks and footers in my new house. Jack was so gobsmacked by the sound of my digital that when we were done he asked " does Taiko have representation In Philippines. I put Jack in touch with Emile. Jack has a loaded Extreme on order and has solidified with Emile, Taiko's representation in Philippines. Jack IMO will be a true ambassador fro the product in his country and abroad. I am hoping that Jack will be attending the Taiko event at my house in Q4 this year when Emile will be here and we will do a soft launch of the BPS. Here is the link to Jack's post

Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

Having had the pleasure of spending a couple of days at Steve's house last winter, I too can attest to his system sounding remarkable. Everything about that space is extraordinary from the story of how the room was engineered from essentially a open cathedral ceiling, to the overkill...

whatsbestforum.com

 

[Taiko Audio]

The antenna problem/choice is an interesting topic.

I don't know much about the subject, but shouldn't the antenna be a fraction of the wavelength (1/2, 1/4, etc.)?

The wavelength corresponding to 2.4 Ghz is roughly 12 cm, which would give antennas of 6, 3, 2 cm. And so on.

There also seems to be a relation between antenna length and directivity, not to mention impedance.

In short, I can imagine that it won't be easy to choose, as all this will ultimately have an impact on sound.

It'll be interesting to hear how you arrived at your final choice. Purely by listening or/and on more practical criteria?

Cheers,

Thomas

Will share my experiences with it I expect minimal differences as the radio transmitter power is set to manual and there will be only one Wi-Fi device. But we’ll see!

 

[JackD201]

Hi Gents, JackD201 checking in very very late to the party. At least I made it before post 1000

What Steve said ^

Well I'm going to need a lot of guidance because I am the analog guy in our company. I foresee Keith my other partner being the go to guy for our customers but I am here to learn as best I can.

My ears do still work so having heard the SGM at Steve's it was really a no brainer.

Thank you Emile for welcoming us to the Taiko family. We are looking forward to a long and fruitful relationship with you.

For those that are not familiar my system, it is configured currently as follows

VSA Ultra 11s
CH M10 Monos
CH L10 Pre
CH P1 (P10 soon)
TechDAS Air Force 1
SAT
Graham Elite
Various Carts faves being Koetsu off catalog stone/platinum/diamond cantilevers
CH C1.5
CH D1.5
CH T1 (incoming)
Aurender W20 (outgoing LOL)
NAS
Cables all MasterIBuilt Ultra except phono cables (Odin 2 for Graham, SAT captured)
Racks All CMS Maxxum
CS2 footers except power supplies chassis'

I am currently using ordinary switches as the CH system is controlled by in part by the CH App via ethernet

It will be very interesting integrating the SGM into this system and to our client's systems that use not just CH but also the other DACs we carry such as EERA.

I'm going to need a lot of help LOL

 

[Ron Resnick]

Update on the router:

The new PCBs with integrated Wi-Fi have arrived, we also used the opportunity to install our latest generation of GaN fet regulators which no longer need bulk electrolytic capacitors which increases longevity and replaced an input filter capacitor with a Duelund which interestingly performs very well at high frequencies despite the higher lead out inductance over SMD.

View attachment 113727

View attachment 113728

Now we're just waiting for cases to return from the surface finish company. We also found a new surface finish company with a much shorter turn-around and a higher working capacity which should also be able to provide the long sought after anodised silver finish!

Meanwhile we're experimenting with different antennas with some interesting results:

View attachment 113729

Evidence currently points towards SQ being mainly impacted by a combination of antenna to device connection quality

Have you evaluated any sound quality difference between the F connector and a BNC connector?

 

[Ron Resnick]

shouldn't the antenna be a fraction of the wavelength (1/2, 1/4, etc.)?

yes