Do higher end subwoofer cables make for a sound quality improvement?

[Muser]

Just out of curiosity, we removed one driver to see what it looked like inside. A friend swapped his Watt/Puppy for something better. The sound quality is completely different.
Audiophysic medea with active bass.
View attachment 148800

 

[Charles S]

sbo6, you clearly imply that paper drivers are inferior to Magico drivers that do use paper. All Wilson speakers in current production use paper for all their drivers including the WAMM Master Chronosonic. Your implication that paper drivers are inherently inferior to non-paper drivers is wrong. Second, to state that Wilson in the distant past used MDF and then state that current Wilson drivers use it is spreading false information about Wilson speakers. X-Material is not MDF. None of the materials that Wilson currently use are MDF. Third, RH's system is about 540K (XVX in a custom finish at 400K and his two Subsonics at 90K plus speaker cables and IC's about 50K: total 540K). The difference is about 240K (750K-540K). I'm glad to know that you know that RH uses an XVX/Subsonic system because of a price differential of 240K. Fourth, two Subsonics go below 10Hz and an M9 is rated to go down to 18 HZ. The total weight of an XVX/Subsonic system is 2,682 pounds (XVX at 685 pounds and a Subsonic at 606 pounds and the crossover at 40 pounds: total 2,622 pounds). I believe that an XVX will surpass the M9 in LF capability on its own, and much more with two Subsonics. Respectfully, there nothing at this point that you could recommend about my room that I would consider. At this point I am defending Wilson speakers from the false information you are spreading about them and false information about RH.

Below is the correct information:

1) RH did not choose his current speaker system based on price. He based it on its superior sonic qualities and his preferences.
2) Wilson drivers are not inferior because they are made of paper rather than exotic materials
3) Current Wilson speakers to not use MDF

sbo6, you clearly imply that paper drivers are inferior to Magico drivers that do use paper. All Wilson speakers in current production use paper for all their drivers including the WAMM Master Chronosonic. Your implication that paper drivers are inherently inferior to non-paper drivers is wrong. Second, to state that Wilson in the distant past used MDF and then state that current Wilson drivers use it is spreading false information about Wilson speakers. X-Material is not MDF. None of the materials that Wilson currently use are MDF. Third, RH's system is about 540K (XVX in a custom finish at 400K and his two Subsonics at 90K plus speaker cables and IC's about 50K: total 540K). The difference is about 240K (750K-540K). I'm glad to know that you know that RH uses an XVX/Subsonic system because of a price differential of 240K. Fourth, two Subsonics go below 10Hz and an M9 is rated to go down to 18 HZ. The total weight of an XVX/Subsonic system is 2,682 pounds (XVX at 685 pounds and a Subsonic at 606 pounds and the crossover at 40 pounds: total 2,622 pounds). I believe that an XVX will surpass the M9 in LF capability on its own, and much more with two Subsonics. Respectfully, there nothing at this point that you could recommend about my room that I would consider. At this point I am defending Wilson speakers from the false information you are spreading about them and false information about RH.

Below is the correct information:

1) RH did not choose his current speaker system based on price. He based it on its superior sonic qualities and his preferences.
2) Wilson drivers are not inferior because they are made of paper rather than exotic materials
3) Current Wilson speakers to not use MDF
4) RH is not a liar. Your comments speak volumes about you and the kind of person you are.

 

[sbo6]

sbo6, you clearly imply that paper drivers are inferior to Magico drivers that do use paper. All Wilson speakers in current production use paper for all their drivers including the WAMM Master Chronosonic. Your implication that paper drivers are inherently inferior to non-paper drivers is wrong. Second, to state that Wilson in the distant past used MDF and then state that current Wilson drivers use it is spreading false information about Wilson speakers. X-Material is not MDF. None of the materials that Wilson currently use are MDF. Third, RH's system is about 540K (XVX in a custom finish at 400K and his two Subsonics at 90K plus speaker cables and IC's about 50K: total 540K). The difference is about 240K (750K-540K). I'm glad to know that you know that RH uses an XVX/Subsonic system because of a price differential of 240K. Fourth, two Subsonics go below 10Hz and an M9 is rated to go down to 18 HZ. The total weight of an XVX/Subsonic system is 2,682 pounds (XVX at 685 pounds and a Subsonic at 606 pounds and the crossover at 40 pounds: total 2,622 pounds). I believe that an XVX will surpass the M9 in LF capability on its own, and much more with two Subsonics. Respectfully, there nothing at this point that you could recommend about my room that I would consider. At this point I am defending Wilson speakers from the false information you are spreading about them and false information about RH.

Below is the correct information:

1) RH did not choose his current speaker system based on price. He based it on its superior sonic qualities and his preferences.
2) Wilson drivers are not inferior because they are made of paper rather than exotic materials
3) Current Wilson speakers to not use MDF

Charles, you clearly don't believe in facts that I posted, I think we're done here. Enjoy RH's 2nd favorite speaker.

 

[Charles S]

Charles, you clearly don't believe in facts that I posted, I think we're done here. Enjoy RH's 2nd favorite speaker.

You did not post facts. You posted false information. Don't call false information facts. And you continue to do so.

 

[Kingrex]

MDF has a a very specific meaning. But many small fibrous strands bound together with heat, pressure and resins can make an extremely rigid material. Carbon fiber is a somewhat close example. It just has longer strands.
Having said that, it that what Wilson is assumed to make drivers from. A fibrous pulp of some type mixed with a strong binder and formed into the cone? Don't Focal do the same? Sorry to divert from the topic.

What is the general consensus without having to do 6 pages. I know the cables from amp to the drivers do. I have heard that in experimentation at a friend place. Those were internal wires. I am not as sure about the signal. But there are sonic differences when you go high or low level. But that's an impedance thing.

I bet it really comes down to how good are your subs, And how well integrated are they. As well as where other crossed over. Some could be crossed very high and pick up midrange frequencies.

I think someone like Ralph would say if it's a balanced cable, it would not matter. If it's a single end cable, then the colorations might please you one way or another

 

[sbo6]

You did not post facts. You posted false information. Don't call false information facts. And you continue to do so.

Charles, you need to be quiet now. I posted FACTS.

I quoted Wilsons using MDF some years back - FACT. You have no evidence that the current material does not include MDF. - FACT

You post about subsonic low bass yet have NEVER measured your room to substantiate anything - FACT

RH posted in TAS that the M9 is the best speaker he has ever heard after also having heard the XVX - FACT

You need to stop lying and exaggerating and acknowledge science, and FACTS.

 

[treitz3]

Gentlemen, please take this to PM. This all has nothing to do with higher end subwoofer cables and the effect they have on sound quality. Any further off topic posts will be deleted without notice.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Tom

 

[italia]

I run 3-meters long analog interconnects to my powered subwoofers, and recently replaced what were very good cables made 15+ years ago with a new very good product. The difference in dynamics, speed and tonal quality from the subs was noticeable. YMMV

 

[Schuess]

I wonder how prevalent it was for sound engineers to be oblivious to the sub-25 Hz portion of the audio waveform, which many modern speakers and subs can reproduce at a high SPL. If the studio monitoring system could not reproduce the deep bass accurately, it would be difficult to mix and shape optimally, making a case for high-passing. Obviously, low-low-bass information exists on old recordings, so maybe I’m oblivious to the level of care given.

 

[vrac]

Civility is a virtue.

 

[WBF Team]

Dear forum members, more posts have been deleted. This thread subject is this - Do higher end subwoofer cables make for a sound quality improvement?

Please stick to the topic.

 

[DasguteOhr]

The Puppies are now more than 20 years old - I owned them in the Watt/Puppy system VII. As you say they were manufactured from Corian and damped with lead bars - it was the little known secret about their "absence" of box sound. RoHS regimentation ruled it out, Wilson had to move to other materials. At that time the use of Corian in speakers was innovative, not anymore. The drivers were manufactured by Dynaudio.

I really like the material, but Wilson is not my cup of tea...luckily tastes differ.

By that time my new kitchen got Corian tops - I can assure you that it is much harder to machine than wood and lasts forever! It is also frequently used in laboratory tops.

You have buy better tools ..my tip

My favorit cable for subwoofers is voodoocable silver mica zero one.
This strikes the balance between musicality and a high level of detail. I've been searching for something comparable for 20 years and haven't found anything. Unfortunately, it's only available used; the company no longer exists.balanced or rca useable two wires and shelding

 

[sbo6]

I'm curious if anyone has had a chance to ABA subwoofer PCs and ICs? Would be very interesting to hear feedback. I may do so when I have a chance and report.

 

[treitz3]

I never A/B'd any of the cables I used. It was rather obvious to me that they either worked effectively, or it was an immediate case that they were out of there.

In most cases over the years, with every swap out, I had to readjust the subs to match the mains and the room again. It was very frustrating. I cannot stand boom at the bottom on any level, and the better the cable, the less overponderance I experienced. That lead to better sound, a better foundation and more enjoyment, along with vastly improving palpability that I achieved out of my system.

Tom

 

[Kingrex]

In most cases over the years, with every swap out, I had to readjust the subs to match the mains and the room again. It was very frustrating. I cannot stand boom at the bottom on any level, and the better the cable, the less overponderance I experienced.
Tom

Qhat if it's Pat Travers - Boom Boom Out Go The Lights.!!

 

[Lee]

Charles, stating that the Wilsons use paper drivers is the truth, how is that disrespectful?

Also, you never answered my question WRT RH stating publicly in his magazine that the M9 is the best speaker he's ever heard (bar none), is he lying to everyone or lying to you via your private conversations? Either way, he's lying, that speaks volumes about his credibility.

And why does RH likely own the XVX vs. the M9 (a speaker in another league)? Because the M9 is >$400K more.

Finally, the X, Y, Z whatever material Wilson uses is based on - MDF. It's a composite with other materials, but it's primarily MDF, look it up before trying to insult me by stating, "This just shows how totally wrong you are."

I also highly recommend you have your room measured if you don't have the technical ability to do so. Again, you might be surprised what you find, and not only in the bass.

It’s not MDF. It’s a phenolic based material. It’s so hard the new Wilson CNC machine uses special drill bits to carve it.

 

[Lee]

Once you remove the Puppy itself from a Watt/Puppy you’re left with very nice sounding speaker. Puppy is responsible for boomy, exaggerated, uncontrollable bass that ruins everything. Besides that, Puppy is also responsible for driving difficulty. The problem with this solution is; nobody wants to pay a full range price and to be left with a bookshelf.

I don’t hear “boomy, exaggerated, uncontrollable” bass in the Watt Puppy 50th.

 

[Kingrex]

I'm happy with 30 Hz without any loss of efficiency. Anything below that causes acoustic problems. The rooms need to be treated extremely acoustically. Then they no longer feel like a cozy living room. I had that years ago, and I threw everything out, leaving only what was necessary to enjoy the music.
Rarely have I heard a truly good concept that works flawlessly at 20 Hz. A double bass array can do that, but it's too much effort for me.

View attachment 148704

P.S backwall looks equal

That image is for a home movie system, correct??? Not 2 channel hifi?

 

[DasguteOhr]

That image is for a home movie system, correct??? Not 2 channel hifi?

Yes, but why not use a double bass array for stereo when go down to 20hz or lower without room acoustic problem.you have a constant bass wave front with few room modes.

 

[sbo6]

Yes, but why not use a double bass array for stereo when go down to 20hz or lower without room acoustic problem.you have a constant bass wave front with few room modes.View attachment 148884

You are only showing axial room modes. You omitted tangential and oblique, bass modes are not that simple. Then there are objects in the room plus different surface materials that also effect room modes especially above 20Hz and more in line with subwoofer use up to ~80Hz.