Yes had bought the MSL 1030 and it was just OK. Actually the 1030 retails at $5250 which costs a bit more than the Consolidated Audio sut.
gosh. with what cart did you use it please and tonearm? have you considered Silvercore? I have one on order right now. The consolidated audio have been reviewed well of course. Shakti has a 1:20 for sale right now i believe in silver. that would be spot on for MSL i would think.
I used the MSL 1030 mainly with a MSL Sig Gold or a MSL Sig Platinum. (My current favorite is the new MSL Sig Diamond which is the best cartridge I've heard in my system). I found overall the Platinum very detailed but a bit soft sounding. Never heard the 1030 with the Sig Diamond since this is their newest offering.
i had been dreaming of the msl ultra eminent plus t1030 combo so this is real news to me. the msl gold sig is a bit different to the cart Herb had trialled but not that much. i love silver SUTs so I think you must try the consolidated 1:20 and report back. i will try the silvercore and do same.
See links below, I found the Consolidated Audio to be clearly Best of 3 by a large margin, , surprisingly large differences even when level matched with measuments., I was not prepared for nor expecting hearing so much difference.n. Lyra Kleos cartridge.The one SUT I did not like sounded very different, small soundstage and thin compared to the two others,
MSL has very low R for most of their cartridges and may not be comparable to other cartridges/ SUT combinations. Probably a you need SUT with 3ohm input and not too high turns ratio to keep output mv in a reasonable range ( 3-8mv)
The best way to know how SUT and cartridge match is to measure, and hear of course if demo is possible
Measuring is a special task with pitfalls as the test setup can affect the results a lot
I later met a hifi friend that also heard the same 3 SUTs and reassuringly he had the same conclusion as me.
Post in thread 'Popularity of a step-up transformer?'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/popularity-of-a-step-up-transformer.37141/post-1040379
Post in thread 'Popularity of a step-up transformer?'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/popularity-of-a-step-up-transformer.37141/post-1040493
Kyra Kleos R=5,4ohm
“Michael advised me to go for a 1:12 turns ratio, given that my EAR324 phono stage does not have a lot of headroom to handle an excessively amplified input voltage.”
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@Balle Clorin thanks for your input. Michael has also suggested a 1:12 turns ratio for my MSL Signature Diamond. Were you using his silver or copper version?
It is not mine , but here is the info from the owner, From it it seems like a <2 ohm version can be made too,some MSL are below 2 ohm.. MSL recommends 100-800 with 400ohm as ideal so a 1:12 would be optimal as Michael said. That would give you a load of 326.4 ohm and 6mV output to the MM which is fine.
Tech specs on the Monster Can are:
-Most importantly: "It's about the turns ratio" (the only thing you really need to think a little ballpark about...)
This is 1:12, to "cover" a Koetsu Black ´82 model (0.4mV) plus a Lyra Delos/Kleos).
That gets 4.8-6mV into the phono stage.
It works absolutely brilliantly on an Ortofon SPU Ethos and that is, even though it is a bit "borderline" S/N-ratio.
-Copper (Cardas) winding material
-Nano-Crystalline core material (very significant vs Hi-Nickel/Mu-Metal "standard" core material, although I'm very curious about Michael's Hi-Nickel version in silver which I'm thinking of ordering as the next variant)
- Loading tuning options possible via load plugs, see picture.
-Low Impedance (2-10Ohm) (Medium is 10-20) (High is 20 < typical EMT Tonsdose etc.) (Can also make Very Low <2)
So the mat...........12 x 12 = 144 Impedance Ratio. "standard" secondary load / input 47KOhm / Imp Ratio (144) = "reflected" load 326Ohm. Jonathan Carr recommends approx. 90-510Ohm, Can't remember exactly with the Koetsu, but this is no point in losing so much sleep at night over it.
If you "have to" tweak a Monster Can due to ringing or other anomalies, it comes with the option to plug in load resistors (but this shouldn't be necessary, because then there's a bit of a gross mismatch going on.).
Just solder a 25/15/10 kOhm resistor into an RCA connector and experiment away.
You may have seen this already, from Consolidated Audio home page.
March 2019 – Consolidated Audio “Monster Can” – The Audio Eagle
www.theaudioeagle.com
That is What I call service, beyond any other SUT makers
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The MSL line of cartridges have very low internal impedance i.e. ideal for a current / transimpedance input phono stages.
I have my MSL Eminent Ex linked to the current / transimpedance input of my P1 (with X1) with nice results.
I haven't tried my MSL Eminent Ex linked to a SUT etc. as I have asked myself the question why would I want to do that for this particular cartridge with a possibility of degrading the signal and the possibility of the sound with a more complex electrical circuit !
Therefore to get the best out of the very expensive MSL Signature Diamond, shouldn't the exploring of using a respectable quality and performance (in line with the chosen cartridge) phono stage with a current / transimpedance input rather than a SUT with lots of additional cabling (that also has to be chosen wisely !) be undertaken first ?
I actually own a MSL Signature Diamond that replaces a MSL Signature Platinum. So I was I able to compare the Monster Can vs. the T-2000 with the MSL.
I am not impressed by the almost non existing shielding ? of Phasemation..Classic SUTs did this much better, triple shielding with mu-metal etc. It would be interesting to know if owners of modern SUT like this one experience any noise issues,, (My classic SUT does not pick up any noise what so ever.);
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Do I understand that you take a review of an entry level product and draw conclusions on their top of the line SUT? As already mentioned in another thread to another poster, I never make comments on products which I never had the chance to listen to in a familiar environment. I owned a Consolidated SUT Silver for several years and confronted it directly against the Phasemation T-2000. Don't take me wrong, the Consolidated SUTs are excellent but I found better, unfortunately not in the same price range...
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It is certainly interesting that the Phasemation T-550 does not rely on conventional screening cans etc, but I can tell you that (like all Phasemation SUTs) the T-550 has really first class noise/hum isolation, so the designers do know what they are doing here. The T-550 is a really top quality SUT that fortunately sounds excellent too, and I have not heard better at this price point. The preceding T-500 model was slightly different in having two individual compartments inside the steel case, each effectively sealed by the top cover, and with one transformer nesting in each compartment: I always thought that was a neat way of doing things.
As always, the Proof of the Pudding is in the Listening. For reference, I have a T-550 here, as well as the excellent but more expensive Quadratic Audio MC-1.
Well I've placed an order for a Consolidated Audio SUT extra-low-impedance model with a ratio of 1:12 to match my MSL Sig Diamond. Will be ready around September.
yesterday i rec'd the silvercore 1:10 pro in silver. early days yet. running it with lyra delos. it opened up alot in the few hours i used it. already sounds miles ahead of the AT670T which itself is very nice (and v flexible with three ratios being offered).
rothwell the sut manufacturers have published a nice three page exploration of SUTs.
they seem to be of the opinion that all this loading stuff is not required. they provide substantiation of this point. they indicate the target should be an output voltage of ~ 5 mV and where impedance of cart is low-ish looking at windings can achieve that. silvercore's christof kraus seems to think same way.
i have never used loading but that's more to do with being unable to comprehend it frankly. having said that, i don't know if i have ever used a SUT i didn't like.
up until previously i had lately been using an iogold with an s9. it has been very interesting to try some other combos. for example denon 103 with A23, art9 with the AT670T and now the delos with silvercore. i had wanted to try msl ultra eminent with t1030 but as reported by @SOS his combo of msl (albeit higher level than eminent) with t1030 did not blow his socks off as it did Herb R from stereophile.
i now look to the phasemation pp-2000 with the t2000 sut as a "famous" combo one might want to try as well as the Ikeda IST-201 with 9gss. the phasemation t2000 seems like an extraordinary sut. most everyone who has heard it rates it very highly. consolidated audio big can is also on the list.
rothwell the sut manufacturers have published a nice three page exploration of SUTs.
they seem to be of the opinion that all this loading stuff is not required. they provide substantiation of this point. they indicate the target should be an output voltage of ~ 5 mV and where impedance of cart is low-ish looking at windings can achieve that. silvercore's christof kraus seems to think same way.
i have never used loading but that's more to do with being unable to comprehend it frankly. having said that, i don't know if i have ever used a SUT i didn't like.
up until previously i had lately been using an iogold with an s9. it has been very interesting to try some other combos. for example denon 103 with A23, art9 with the AT670T and now the delos with silvercore. i had wanted to try msl ultra eminent with t1030 but as reported by @SOS his combo of msl (albeit higher level than eminent) with t1030 did not blow his socks off as it did Herb R from stereophile.
i now look to the phasemation pp-2000 with the t2000 sut as a "famous" combo one might want to try as well as the Ikeda IST-201 with 9gss. the phasemation t2000 seems like an extraordinary sut. most everyone who has heard it rates it very highly. consolidated audio big can is also on the list.
I read Rothwells conclusion a bit different. Loading a SUT is not bad , the problem in that most people do it the wrong way, by just lowering the secondary resistance by a parallel R,, which can compromise the performance. The correct way is to use a Zobel ( RC ) on the secondary side. I have done and measured and listened to both methods and Rothwell are correct , Zobel load give the best response. The measurements are posted earlier in the thread. But without specialised equipment measurements of SUT are difficult and you cannot do this reliably by ear. Luckily I found that the SUT makers recommendation 3 ohm cart to 3 ohm input and 40 ohm to 40ohm produced optimal results without any additional loading. But using a 10 ohm cartridge DOES require a Zobel load as Rothwell recommend, for the best measurements. But the audible difference is small /marginal I cannot hear a peak at 80kHz,or a few degrees phase change at 18k…
That is probably why a SUT maker get away with specifying a SUT for 3-40 ohm,, but SUT cannot be optimal for such a wide range.
That is probably why a SUT maker get away with specifying a SUT for 3-40 ohm,, but SUT cannot be optimal for such a wide range.
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Ok I need to re-read it then cause I missed all that. What does loading do to sound? What issue does it address sonically or does it vary?
Non optimal load can cause transformer ringing shown above-Google it- , or early top end roll off, or using a too high step up ratio can cause loss of lower end . Some people claim to hear the effects of transformer ringing . To me the difference is very subtle between A SUT that rings and a MC stage without SUT/No ringing. But early bass roll off caused by a mismatch can be very audible I think the is is what makes the most obvious SUT difference in sound
The picture above shows the effect of adding an experimental Zobel (RC) load across the secondary , as recommended by Rothwell. The overshoot and ringing on the impuls of a square wave is eliminated, further tuning did extend the high end of the Zobel load
Generally loading just with R will give a lier signal level= lower volume, the effect can be so that out do not notice the volume change, but the sound seem to improve with higher secondary total resistance, up to a point where noise performance may get worse. Without a SUT I have worse noise floor at 47k load on my MC than at 470 ohm.?
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Lowest source gives highest frequency response , but with a slight ringing, high internal resistance gives lower frequency response and rolled off transient/square wave. Blue curve shows top end frequency where response has dropped 1db.
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@Balle Clorin OK i see now. yes as you say it seems something for the more informed user since the RC would be different for each SUT and measurements are required. the fact i have no idea what measurements aqre required clearly disqualifies me; and i am OK with that 
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