SET amp owners thread

[Mr. Analog]

The Audio Note AN J (with HEMP) are great speakers. However, they sound much more strained compared to the Tonapparate. The Model 50 creates a much more effortless and fluid sound. The field coil version should go a little further here.

I can't report any coloration of the Tonapparate.

Regards

Tom

 

[Lautreamont]

The Audio Note AN J (with HEMP) are great speakers. However, they sound much more strained compared to the Tonapparate. The Model 50 creates a much more effortless and fluid sound. The field coil version should go a little further here.

I can't report any coloration of the Tonapparate.

Regards

Tom

I also like products of Audio Note and I find their sound rather natural. As an amateur musician I believe in natural timbre and tonal clarity, but not in the transparent, "hi-fi"-way but in a musical neutral way.

Do you find Tonapparate more naturaland having more clarity whereas Audio Note is lacking ease and sound tense? Did you find Tonapparate fatiguing to listen to over longer listening sessions?

 

[Mr. Analog]

Audio Note sounds more like a real good Hifi/High-End and Tonapparate creates real tones. That is the main difference. The time correctness and the decay behavior are the special feature of the tight tolerances of the Supravox drivers. The horn is only coupled with one component. Nothing gets in the way of the music - hardly any other manufacturer does that, if we are honest with ourselves.

However, the Model 50 doesn't work so well with a 300 B - which is why there was some criticism here.

 

[bonzo75]

I hope I'm not intruding the original intent of this thread.

I currently have entry level Audio Note speakers (AN J/D). I have been considering a lot of speakers, from Hora Audios "Coco" to Swissonors "B.A.C.H. 12d" to Admire Audios "AA2". I even contemplated proceeding with a field coil driver by Mr. Rullit in a DIY cabinet (made by friends) and using it as a single driver (full range concept).
The easiest and most convenient thing to do is to upgrade my AN J/D to perhaps AN SPe/HE (the signature model is where my budget tightens). Anyway there is something about it that I simply can't stop thinking about. AN SPe/HE has a rather simple SEAS unit whereas the Model 50 and 55 has AlNiCo and field coil driver respectively. The 55 also have a bronze horn replica from WE. Caps and components are Jupiter and it's solid wood - it just sound as if the whole speaker is of better quality.

My room is 5 x 5 meters and approaching 2,7 meters to the ceilings in an old manor apartment.

Sorry for not replying earlier. While Alnico is technically better than ferrite, you will find many Altec Alnico and ferrite sounding bad, and the occasional Altec Alnico and Ferrite sounding great. There are many who think TAD 4003 neodymium followed by TAD alnico 4001 are among the best drivers due to their Beryllium, and those who prefer other non-Be drivers to it.

There are too many field coil wannabes who never became western electric, not to mention many WE implementations outside Chueng's collection in Munich don't sound good.

So - similar to wood horns, metal horns, and composite material horns, try not to be focused on Alnico field coil only and listen to the speaker. Crossovers and matching drivers with horn design plays a big role

the Model 50 has a very high crossover, I can hear compression in violin and female vocals but the male vocals are better than AN-E as the midbass is better. Both AN E and Model 50 have a colour where recording stages sound similar across records, whether that is important to you or not I cannot say. Both are pleasant and you can listen long, though I don't find intensity in them.

With your room size, I would look at Devore O96, if you have higher budget than Audionec EVO 2, and above that hORNs Universum. If you like AN i would stay with it. But then if you like AN you might like Model 50. It is based on how you listen to recordings.

 

[bonzo75]

Sorry for not replying earlier. While Alnico is technically better than ferrite, you will find many Altec Alnico and ferrite sounding bad, and the occasional Altec Alnico and Ferrite sounding great. There are many who think TAD 4003 neodymium followed by TAD alnico 4001 are among the best drivers due to their Beryllium, and those who prefer other non-Be drivers to it.

There are too many field coil wannabes who never became western electric, not to mention many WE implementations outside Chueng's collection in Munich don't sound good.

So - similar to wood horns, metal horns, and composite material horns, try not to be focused on Alnico field coil only and listen to the speaker. Crossovers and matching drivers with horn design plays a big role

the Model 50 has a very high crossover, I can hear compression in violin and female vocals but the male vocals are better than AN-E as the midbass is better. Both AN E and Model 50 have a colour where recording stages sound similar across records, whether that is important to you or not I cannot say. Both are pleasant and you can listen long, though I don't find intensity in them.

With your room size, I would look at Devore O96, if you have higher budget than Audionec EVO 2, and above that hORNs Universum. If you like AN i would stay with it. But then if you like AN you might like Model 50. It is based on how you listen to recordings.

One more thing. Model 50 is a very good speaker for jazz and they are here recordings.

Also, there is Tannoy 12 inch HPD 315a or 15 inch Gold which I would prefer to it, and above that Altec A5/A7 like Rensaeller, but this requires you to do some work yourself

 

[DasguteOhr]

Soundkaos liberation speaker 98db

LIBERATION — ALTERNATIVE AUDIO

www.soundkaos.com

Raal ribbon tweeter
2 x enviee 8"wideband https://enviee.de/en/
1x 18" woofer
Fantastic, vivid, natural sound, always when they were in Munich. Best of the show.

 

[Mr. Analog]

With your room size, I would look at Devore O96, if you have higher budget than Audionec EVO 2, and above that hORNs Universum. If you like AN i would stay with it. But then if you like AN you might like Model 50. It is based on how you listen to recordings.

With Devore, please note that the efficiency on paper does not correspond to reality and should be set somewhat lower. This limits the choice of SET tube somewhat.

As far as the Universum is concerned, you should concentrate on the new MK IV, which in my opinion has finally got the transitions in the frequency ranges under control.

Regards

Tom

 

[bonzo75]

With Devore, please note that the efficiency on paper does not correspond to reality and should be set somewhat lower. This limits the choice of SET tube somewhat.

As far as the Universum is concerned, you should concentrate on the new MK IV, which in my opinion has finally got the transitions in the frequency ranges under control.

Regards

Tom

Possibly mk4 is better than the 3, haven’t heard it.

With Devore, I found the best results from NAF2a3 10 watts and airtight 300b, after trying many higher powered sets and push pulls

 

[morricab]

Possibly mk4 is better than the 3, haven’t heard it.

With Devore, I found the best results from NAF2a3 10 watts and airtight 300b, after trying many higher powered sets and push pulls

NAF 2A3 is a push/pull amp, not SET.

 

[morricab]

Possibly mk4 is better than the 3, haven’t heard it.

With Devore, I found the best results from NAF2a3 10 watts and airtight 300b, after trying many higher powered sets and push pulls

MkIV was in Munich and it’s pretty good but they nearly doubled the price over the mkiii.

 

[bonzo75]

NAF 2A3 is a push/pull amp, not SET.

Yes a 2a3 set will be around 3 watts.

 

[morricab]

Yes a 2a3 set will be around 3 watts.

With two tubes per channel, a PSET 2A3 will be 6-8 watts. NAF has 2 output tubes per channel, it’s either PSET or PP (it’s PP). Kondo Souga is PSET for about 8 watts.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Even if you don't like push-pull amps, this is a very good amp. Atelier du Triode 2A3 15 watts 120 lbs. A lot of Bartolucci iron.

 

[Atmasphere]

Possibly mk4 is better than the 3, haven’t heard it.

With Devore, I found the best results from NAF2a3 10 watts and airtight 300b, after trying many higher powered sets and push pulls

The Devore likes a bit of power. If you really want to hear that speaker at its best, you'll want 30 Watts or more unless you are in a smaller room.

 

[bonzo75]

The Devore likes a bit of power. If you really want to hear that speaker at its best, you'll want 30 Watts or more unless you are in a smaller room.

No it doesn’t. I heard it with Airtight EL34 34 watts, Riviera 50w hybrid, Jadis 100w integrated, Silvercore 833c 20 watts in direct compares with those amps I mentioned. And a German 300b 20 watts with the EML 320 XLS. Also with Kondo overture EL34

 

[Atmasphere]

No it doesn’t. I heard it with Airtight EL34 34 watts, Riviera 50w hybrid, Jadis 100w integrated, Silvercore 833c 20 watts in direct compares with those amps I mentioned. And a German 300b 20 watts with the EML 320 XLS. Also with Kondo overture EL34

Using a limited sample set as you have here, your comment is essentially a logical fallacy known as a 'Hasty Generalization'.

The flip side of your comment could be the conclusion that the DeVore does not benefit from more power. This idea is of course false; the speaker is only 96dB. Most SETs only make about 20-25% usable power before distortion causes them to sound 'dynamic'. So a 300b SET is good for 2-3 Watts... that simply isn't enough for a speaker like this in most normal sized rooms if you really want to hear what the speaker can do. The reason you want that extra power is simply so the amp is loafing all the time. In that way it will be as relaxed and effortless presentation as possible.

The issue I suspect concerns you is the competency of the amplifier. Not all higher power (+30 Watts) amplifiers suck! Some are quite good and will give any SET a total run for the money no worries. You simply need to expand your sample size and you'll see. The DeVores respond very well to more power; as you might imagine I am speaking from direct experience just like yourself. The difference is a larger sample size.

 

[morricab]

Even if you don't like push-pull amps, this is a very good amp. Atelier du Triode 2A3 15 watts 120 lbs. A lot of Bartolucci iron.View attachment 153346

I am sure this sounds good.

 

[bonzo75]

Using a limited sample set as you have here, your comment is essentially a logical fallacy known as a 'Hasty Generalization'.

The flip side of your comment could be the conclusion that the DeVore does not benefit from more power. This idea is of course false; the speaker is only 96dB.

I think you should learn to differentiate between loudness and easy to drive. Tannoy is 100db but more difficult to drive than Devore

 

[Atmasphere]

I think you should learn to differentiate between loudness and easy to drive. Tannoy is 100db but more difficult to drive than Devore

Of course! I imagine you know I'm a designer and manufacturer. Do you really think I don't know the difference?

What you are not considering is a rising tide floats all boats. Make the speaker easier to drive and all amplifiers benefit.

 

[bonzo75]

Of course! I imagine you know I'm a designer and manufacturer. Do you really think I don't know the difference?

What you are not considering is a rising tide floats all boats. Make the speaker easier to drive and all amplifiers benefit.

Yes I have read your posts on seeds SETs and had the M60 mk3.

The fact that Devore responded better and better as we went down the power rating was quite audible. There were other speakers in the room that did worse as we went lower in power. That was also audible