WHY are high-efficiency speakers are better at conveying emotion of music vs. audiophile vocabulary?

[caesar]

This is pejorative, as people who do not use speakers that you like are not disqualified from being "music lovers."


No speaker is perfect. Aliveness and dynamics are the raison d’être of horns.


This is totally subjective. Obviously the existence of non-horns in the marketplace means that some audiophiles find non-horns better at conveying emotion.


A fair and good question.


An inherently snarky question.

If one's sonic cues are aliveness and dynamics it makes sense to me that one would prefer high-sensitivity horns with simple crossovers over less sensitive box speakers with third order crossovers.

Ron, it's a subjective hobby!

 

[Porsche]

never a fan of horns, I agree about the magico and Wilson rooms at axpona. dont agree that high efficiency speakers sound better than non efficient speakers, that's silly IMO

 

[caesar]

This is pejorative, as people who do not use speakers that you like are not disqualified from being "music lovers."

At a certain point we must look honestly at the truth: the audiophile hobbyist is acclimated to certain tastes and successful brands exist to cater to that. I only wish them success and prosperity in those endeavors.

But we must also be not afraid to ask why so many well off people are not in the hobby, and ponder why not

 

[caesar]

never a fan of horns, I agree about the magico and Wilson rooms at axpona. dont agree that high efficiency speakers sound better than non efficient speakers, that's silly IMO

I am glad you found what you like. And I wish you success and prosperity in selling what you love to others.

As you disagree with the premise, this thread is then not for you

 

[Ron Resnick]

But we must also be not afraid to ask why so many well off people are not in the hobby, and ponder why not

I don't find this question to be puzzling at all.

Hobbies are very subjective. Is this any different than asking why well-off art collectors are not in the hobby of horse racing?

Different people like different things. Just because people are well off doesn't mean they necessarily will embrace expensive hobbies. I don't see a mystery here.

 

[Porsche]

I am glad you found what you like. And I wish you success and prosperity in selling what you love to others.

As you disagree with the premise, this thread is then not for you

I suppose not, like I said, silly observation

 

[MarkusBarkus]

not afraid to ask why so many well off people are not in the hobby, and ponder why not

...aren't you really asking: Why don't people like what I like? Value what I value? People like many things. I don't find there to be some clever insight to ponder under this rock, but I hope you enjoy the experience.

 

[caesar]

I suppose not, like I said, silly observation

fair enough

 

[caesar]

...aren't you really asking: Why don't people like what I like? Value what I value? ...

not really. most people perceive high efficiency speakers as more nimble, dynamic, and alive. In those aspects they are closer to reality. The question is why is this so?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...perhaps the question is: Is this so? It's unclear to me how you calculated "most" in your hypothesis. But OK by me, as I have no horse in this race. Carry on.

 

[Robh3606]

But we must also be not afraid to ask why so many well off people are not in the hobby, and ponder why not

Well like all hobbies you have to be attracted to it and like all hobbies it's subjective and personal. Really don't see what there is to ponder. Like any hobby it's not for everyone.

Rob

 

[Argonaut]

Well look on the bright side @caesar … you made it into the official Ron Resnick ‘Smeared As Snarky’ Club

 

[dcathro]

Gentlemen, one of the things I am puzzled by is many so called high-efficiency speakers, like the flagship Magico m9 and Wilson wamm junior XVX, have high efficiency specs, but trade realism and emotions for hi-fi sound to my senses. I can't last more than 30 seconds with these audiophile brands. (And neither can most musical lovers in the world, as they don't partake in our hobby despite enormous wealth created in the last 50 years.)

Where do you get the high efficiency specs from?

M9: 94db @ 4ohms equates to 91db @ 8ohms!
XVX: 92db @ 4ohms (measures much lower) equates to 89db @ 8ohms!

I think of 94db @ 8ohms as medium sensitivity and 100+db @ 8ohms as high.

 

[caesar]

Where do you get the high efficiency specs from?

M9: 94db @ 4ohms equates to 91db @ 8ohms!
XVX: 92db @ 4ohms (measures much lower) equates to 89db @ 8ohms!

I think of 94db @ 8ohms as medium sensitivity and 100+db @ 8ohms as high.

Thanks for pointing that out! both of those models were marketed as "high efficiency" by the media and dealers, just focusing on 94 and 92 respectively.

 

[bonzo75]

If one's sonic cues are aliveness and dynamics it makes sense to me that one would prefer high-sensitivity horns with simple crossovers over less sensitive box speakers with third order crossovers.

And tone, nuance, integration, cohesion, flow, and weight

 

[morricab]

Where do you get the high efficiency specs from?

M9: 94db @ 4ohms equates to 91db @ 8ohms!
XVX: 92db @ 4ohms (measures much lower) equates to 89db @ 8ohms!

I think of 94db @ 8ohms as medium sensitivity and 100+db @ 8ohms as high.

Given that 94dB is well above average I would say it just about creeps into high sensitivity territory. You start to get decent dynamics.

 

[caesar]

Given that 94dB is well above average I would say it just about creeps into high sensitivity territory. You start to get decent dynamics.

Hi Morricab, thanks for chiming in! Anyone who has a passion for high efficiency speakers and SET amplification owes you a HUGE DEBT of GRATITIDE!

Ironically at Axpona, they had 4 monstrous d'agostino monoblocks connected!

 

[caesar]

I don't find this question to be puzzling at all.

Hobbies are very subjective. Is this any different than asking why well-off art collectors are not in the hobby of horse racing?

Different people like different things. Just because people are well off doesn't mean they necessarily will embrace expensive hobbies. I don't see a mystery here.

Ron,
Obviously we see things from different perspectives. From my perspective, a hobby that has an underlying theme of musical realism and emotional pleasure needs to produce a better product to appeal to so many who enjoy music. May not appeal to everyone, but can certainly appeal to many more than it currently does

 

[microstrip]

Where do you get the high efficiency specs from?

M9: 94db @ 4ohms equates to 91db @ 8ohms!
XVX: 92db @ 4ohms (measures much lower) equates to 89db @ 8ohms!

I think of 94db @ 8ohms as medium sensitivity and 100+db @ 8ohms as high.

These values are only of interest for users of SS amplifiers with low impedance output - using the voltage paradigm, as referred by Ralph Karsten. Also remember Magico factory sensitivity measurements are sometimes a couple of dB higher than the measured values of Stereophile - probably they are not measured in an anechoic conditions.

These complex speakers with many units have points with very low EPR - they can't be considered "efficient" when used with SETs.

 

[dcathro]

Given that 94dB is well above average I would say it just about creeps into high sensitivity territory. You start to get decent dynamics.

Well, my own DIY speakers are around 95db @ 8 ohms ( 4.5 ohms min @ 15Khz, 5.5 ohms min @ 60hz with phase angle between +/- 20deg) so I get reasonable dynamics, but I notice a difference in jump factor when I hear the best horns .