Can a Technics SL-1200G challenge the state of the art?

[microstrip]

I know nothing about either one of the direct drive turntables. I only commented because framer gave a review of the SAT and then decided to buy the K3. Who knows the reasons?

Peter,

Well, I know and anyone reading reviews on the net can easily know. But I find curious that people who systematically complain against and even denigrate the high-end audio press and reviewers, even assuming they don't read them since long and tell us they do not want to read, ask for information on reviews and reviewers. Is it just for gossip?

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

Well, I know and anyone reading reviews on the net can easily know. But I find curious that people who systematically complain against and even denigrate the high-end audio press and reviewers, even assuming they don't read them since long and tell us they do not want to read, ask for information on reviews and reviewers. Is it just for gossip?

Who knows? You could ask the people you are thinking about directly your questions.

 

[Loheswaran]

I know nothing about either one of the direct drive turntables. I only commented because framer gave a review of the SAT and then decided to buy the K3. Who knows the reasons?

I’m pretty sure they both sound great and the nature of anything made requires marketing, however, at this level of price (waaaay outta my league) there’s an awful lot of hyperbole. When TT’s were truly in their prime they had the greatest designers and innovators. Silly budget R&D units with dedicated teams and tooling. Not the cottage industry that occupies high end in small numbers now. What is annoying is the epiphany that necessitates present day manufacturers to claim they invented the wheel to justify extortionate and inflated prices. The SAT from one perspective- like it or not is a hot rod SP10R in a very fancy plinth with some lovely materials to the n’th degree. I have long loved DD’s from my university DJ’ing days and even have my own FB page (sadly whilst it has members nobody posts ). Maybe I’m having an industry wide moan brought in part by Brexit (in the UK) but HiFi has become too expensive and is going to hurt itself in the long term because high end has shrunk and great audio needs to be both widely available and affordable

 

[Jeffy]

I know nothing about either one of the direct drive turntables. I only commented because framer gave a review of the SAT and then decided to buy the K3. Who knows the reasons?

Only Fremer’s hair stylist knows the answers!

 

[Lsipes1965]

I'm a big fan of genuine SORBOTHANE and use it under all of our electronics.

But take care in using SORBOTHANE anywhere near turntables. My experience is that it tends to suck the life out of the music... YMMV.

Just the opposite here. I picked up the Kevin Gray 2016 cut Yes Fragile last month and had my wits startled. Better dynamics than my OG.

 

[microstrip]

Only Fremer’s hair stylist knows the answers!

No, his reviewer friends also know!

 

[microstrip]

I'm a big fan of genuine SORBOTHANE and use it under all of our electronics.

But take care in using SORBOTHANE anywhere near turntables. My experience is that it tends to suck the life out of the music... YMMV.

It is a funny hobby. Some people will tell just the opposite - for example the fabulous Forsell turntable had a (well desguised ...) SORBOTHANE suspension and I would not consider it sucks the life out of music!

My advice - try everything. Do not rule something out just because someone did not have success with it.

 

[mtemur]

The SAT from one perspective- like it or not is a hot rod SP10R in a very fancy plinth with some lovely materials to the n’th degree.

Maybe it’s not just based on the SP10R - it is an SP10R. The rest consists of a plinth with three feet, a MinusK, and a thick platter mat.

In my opinion, neither SAT nor any other high-end company has the capacity, knowledge, or resources to improve upon Technics’ engineering. They can only tweak it, just as we DIYers do. The end result may sound better than stock SP10R, I don’t argue about that but you can do it yourself too, you don’t have to buy it from SAT. That’s what I think.

 

[Atmasphere]

I'm a big fan of genuine SORBOTHANE and use it under all of our electronics.

But take care in using SORBOTHANE anywhere near turntables. My experience is that it tends to suck the life out of the music... YMMV.

That is my experience also- Sorbothane is too soft on its own. It is useful for damping the platter though. So if a harder pad is on top of it that could be better if done properly.

It is a funny hobby. Some people will tell just the opposite - for example the fabulous Forsell turntable had a (well desguised ...) SORBOTHANE suspension and I would not consider it sucks the life out of music!

My advice - try everything. Do not rule something out just because someone did not have success with it.

Sorbothane as a suspension is very different from using it as a platter pad!

 

[Loheswaran]

Maybe it’s not just based on the SP10R - it is an SP10R. The rest consists of a plinth with three feet, a MinusK, and a thick platter mat.

In my opinion, neither SAT nor any other high-end company has the capacity, knowledge, or resources to improve upon Technics’ engineering. They can only tweak it, just as we DIYers do. The end result may sound better than stock SP10R, I don’t argue about that but you can do it yourself too, you don’t have to buy it from SAT. That’s what I think.

I completely agree - harry weisfeld from VPI basically said as much about the technics motor (you can say this of all the 70’s top end DD’s). I actually think that the LP12 was the cheapest way to get a good sound from what was initially a small company with quite simple tooling in which a generic synchronous motor was bought in - far easier to control the writing industry in the UK. Gerrards and Lencos are obvious replinth candidates but the SP10? To the tune of 140k? I don’t take umbrage with the cost of the NVS - the Sirius - the Caliburn - the Derenville - but a modified deck with that much of a price uplift - not for me. If someone says ‘it’s all about the music’ I’d be using an iPod - material considerations do enter the equation

 

[microstrip]

That is my experience also- Sorbothane is too soft on its own. It is useful for damping the platter though. So if a harder pad is on top of it that could be better if done properly.

Sorbothane as a suspension is very different from using it as a platter pad!

Following an indication in another thread of member Cobra213 I have now read a very well carried review of the Nagra HD preamplfier HV. See what is said about its suspension: (my bold)

The column consists of a metal column with threaded ends for the adjustable foot at the lower end and the coupling ring at the upper end. The coupling ring tightens the ear attached to the chassis around the column. The bottom of the coupling ring and the polymer piece at the top of the ear adopt a tapered profile to allow the chassis to center itself on the column. A small rubber O-ring prevents metal-to-metal contact with the ear. The underside of the ear is placed on a large sorbothane ring whose damping properties have been determined after listening sessions.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Following an indication in another thread of member Cobra213 I have now read a very well carried review of the Nagra HD preamplfier HV. See what is said about its suspension: (my bold)

The column consists of a metal column with threaded ends for the adjustable foot at the lower end and the coupling ring at the upper end. The coupling ring tightens the ear attached to the chassis around the column. The bottom of the coupling ring and the polymer piece at the top of the ear adopt a tapered profile to allow the chassis to center itself on the column. A small rubber O-ring prevents metal-to-metal contact with the ear. The underside of the ear is placed on a large sorbothane ring whose damping properties have been determined after listening sessions.

I agree that SORBOTHANE is superb for supporting electronics.

We use SORBOTHANE feet under everything that is pure electronics.

If I had suitable form factors, I too would place SORBOTHANE bushes between each PCB and its fixture.

Sorbothane as a suspension is very different from using it as a platter pad!

Interesting observation.

Whilst I found SORBOTHANE to suck the life from our LP12 in a support role - that is, anywhere near the plinth or top-plate - I might experiment with a thin SORBOTHANE layer between the LINN platter and our BOSTON Carbon Mat. It might be interesting...