CD Quality Is Not High-Res Audio

[NorthStar]

---- Acoustic Sounds Launches High-Resolution Music Site Featuring DSD Downloads

-> Thing is that you get only Stereo DSD; that's it.

* When you purchase an Hybrid SACD, you get:
- A Stereo DSD layer
- A Multichannel DSD layer (up to 5.1 channels)
- A PCM layer (CD compatible with all CD players) usually re-mastered (derived) from the SACD (DSD recording), which sounds better than the Standard Red Book CD (16/44.1)

Yeah, few bucks less, but it should be much less for much less you get.

...And there are various hi-res audio flavors to choose from. ...Bit depth (not applicable here) and extended frequency response.
But who knows what you truly get at the end of the tunnel.

Are downloads better than the physical mediums? ...If hi-def video and hi-res audio from Blu-ray is of any indication, no.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

---- Acoustic Sounds Launches High-Resolution Music Site Featuring DSD Downloads

-> Thing is that you get only Stereo DSD; that's it.

* When you purchased an Hybrid SACD, you get:
- A Stereo DSD layer
- A Multichannel DSD layer (up to 5.1 channels)
- A PCM layer (CD compatible with all CD players) usually re-mastered (derived) from the SACD (DSD recording), which sounds better than the Standard Red Book CD (16/44.1)

Yeah, few bucks less, but it should be much less for much less you get.

...And there are various hi-res audio flavors to choose from. ...Bit depth and extended frequency response.
But who knows what you truly get at the end of the tunnel.

Are downloads better than the physical mediums? ...If hi-def video and hi-res audio from Blu-ray is of any indication, no.

Downloads shoud be cheaper than discs, even if all other things are merely equal. No packaging, no shipping, no retail mark up...the list is long. iTunes should be much cheaper than buying CDs. Unfortunately, markets don't work that way.

Tim

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Downloads shoud be cheaper than discs, even if all other things are merely equal. No packaging, no shipping, no retail mark up...the list is long. iTunes should be much cheaper than buying CDs. Unfortunately, markets don't work that way.

Tim

downloads are software.

the software world price model is value, not cost. it's easier, cheaper, and more elegant to use a server than discs and a transport. and downloads are higher resolution than most discs. so downloads have more value.

how much did you pay for the last MS Windows upgrade? or MS Office upgrade or install?

the price was based on the market value not cost.

get over any expectation of cost based pricing. that's not the real world.

there is a reason that a company like Microsoft can have profits as high as 25% of sales revenue. where most successful businesses have profits between 2% and 5% of sales revenue.

 

[rbbert]

...
the price was based on the market value not cost...

I thought this was true for everything in a market-based (as opposed to socialist or communist) economy? competition is supposed to eventually lower the price to something approaching cost-based.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I thought this was true for everything in a market-based (as opposed to socialist or communist) economy? competition is supposed to eventually lower the price to something approaching cost-based.

sure; market forces are operative always. and if the volume of download sales yield economies of scale with individulal labels where they can drop prices then you might see that. but most of those operations are not big time enough for that to happen. they rely on good margins just to eek by based on meager volumes and are not likely to start any price war.

large market adaption of hirez downloads would change this but i don't see that happening. it's a niche market and likely to stay one.

 

[microstrip]

I think the label "the Swiss Army knife of audio manipulation" is not out of place.

This should do it:

sox -c 2 -r48000 -n out.wav synth 60 sine 50 delay 240s 0

It generates a 24/48 file with a 50 Hz sine wave with a one channel with a phase offset of 240 samples (90 degrees of 50 Hz at 48k) for the first channel, and 0 for the second.

Perfect! BTW, I am using it to drive a synchronous two phase turntable motor using a very cheap digital audio player with a buffer amplifier.

 

[NorthStar]

Downloads shoud be cheaper than discs, even if all other things are merely equal. No packaging, no shipping, no retail mark up...the list is long. iTunes should be much cheaper than buying CDs. Unfortunately, markets don't work that way.

Tim

I hear you. ...And I vote with my own money; physical discs (CDs & SACDs & Blu-rays).

Like that I got much more; jewel box, liner notes, pictures, a nice rainbow/shiny laser disc (gold for SACDs), more layers, special features (extras), and all that real jazz in my own hands (the touch).

* A hi-res download should be no more than 1/3rd of the real deal.
{If I paid $25 for a good Reference Recordings or ECM CD or SACD or Blu-ray, that naked hi-res audio download should be no more than $8}

And if I'm a smart shopper, I'll buy during sales; instead of $25, I'll get it for half ($12). ...Physical disc.
And some of them (Concord Jazz, Telarc, APO, Channel Classics, RR, ...) for $10 or even $5 sometimes (Samplers). ...Physical disc again.

 

[NorthStar]

downloads are software.

the software world price model is value, not cost. it's easier, cheaper, and more elegant to use a server than discs and a transport. and downloads are higher resolution than most discs. so downloads have more value.

how much did you pay for the last MS Windows upgrade? or MS Office upgrade or install?

the price was based on the market value not cost.

get over any expectation of cost based pricing. that's not the real world.

there is a reason that a company like Microsoft can have profits as high as 25% of sales revenue. where most successful businesses have profits between 2% and 5% of sales revenue.

It's similar to driving your Lamborghini in town to buy your groceries, or staying home and ordering it online to be delivered ....

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

downloads are software.

the software world price model is value, not cost. it's easier, cheaper, and more elegant to use a server than discs and a transport. and downloads are higher resolution than most discs. so downloads have more value.

how much did you pay for the last MS Windows upgrade? or MS Office upgrade or install?

the price was based on the market value not cost.

get over any expectation of cost based pricing. that's not the real world.

there is a reason that a company like Microsoft can have profits as high as 25% of sales revenue. where most successful businesses have profits between 2% and 5% of sales revenue.

You just spent 5 sentences saying what I finished my post with in 5 words: "markets don't work that way." Well, except for this part:

downloads are higher resolution than most discs

That's like George HW Bush in a grocery store.

Tim

 

[Julf]

Perfect! BTW, I am using it to drive a synchronous two phase turntable motor using a very cheap digital audio player with a buffer amplifier.

Ah! Nice! That is definitely an interesting solution!

 

[Don Hills]

Perfect! BTW, I am using it to drive a synchronous two phase turntable motor using a very cheap digital audio player with a buffer amplifier.

You need to use a good quality player / DAC. A cheap one might have significant jitter in its output, resulting in speed fluctuations of the turntable, affecting the sound...
.
.
.
.
.
.

 

[Don Hills]

... and on the topic of the cost of downloads versus physical media, downloads need to be significantly cheaper.
When you buy physical media, you get the recorded work plus physical storage, and it has a residual resale value.
When you buy a download, you have to pay for your own physical storage and you can't resell it.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

... and on the topic of the cost of downloads versus physical media, downloads need to be significantly cheaper.
When you buy physical media, you get the recorded work plus physical storage, and it has a residual resale value.
When you buy a download, you have to pay for your own physical storage and you can't resell it.

This! I'm with you 100% here. A reasonable reduction in price to offset the undeniable advantage of the physical format is not unwarranted.

 

[FrantzM]

This! I'm with you 100% here. A reasonable reduction in price to offset the undeniable advantage of the physical format is not unwarranted.

Johnny

What are the "undeniable"advantages of the physical format in your opinion (we are staying on the digital domain)?

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Johnny

What are the "undeniable"advantages of the physical format in your opinion (we are staying on the digital domain)?

Franz - The undeniable advantage IMO is the "physical product" itself and its resale value. If I buy a download based on a recommendation for instance, and I don't end up liking it all that much I've basically thrown the d/l cost out the window. I can't recoup any of the cost and that doesn't sit well with me.

I would love to expand my digital library, but the high price of these hi-rez files makes it a non-starter. Bring down the price to a realistic level and I'll participate, otherwise give me the physical disc.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Franz - The undeniable advantage IMO is the "physical product" itself and its resale value. If I buy a download based on a recommendation for instance, and I don't end up liking it all that much I've basically thrown the d/l cost out the window. I can't recoup any of the cost and that doesn't sit well with me.

I would love to expand my digital library, but the high price of these hi-rez files makes it a non-starter. Bring down the price to a realistic level and I'll participate, otherwise give me the physical disc.

'"it's resale value".

don't mean to blow out your bubble, but unless you own very specific CD's the resale value of most silver/gold discs is close to nothing. I have 4000+ CD's, and maybe 1500 SACD's. I doubt I could get more than $2-$3 for 85-90% of them. maybe 150 to 250 of them have value to sell due to special aspects of these discs, but most are close to worthless.....not worth the time to photograph, list them, and deal with selling them. I know that the effort to sell most CD's on line would never be worth the time it took or the hassle.

have you ever sold any large group of digital discs for any large dollar amount? I seriously doubt it. it's almost hard to give them away. and if I've burned those discs to my hard drive I cannot legally sell them to someone else or even give them away since I would lose my legal right to use the burned files.

I know one reason I stopped buying discs is I have no more shelf space to store them. and downloads solves that problem, and additionally they are easier to use and sound better.

I do respect that there is 'comfort' in holding something in your hand as opposed to a file on your hard drive. but really how is that any different than the software you have for your computer. does it give you comfort knowing than you have a bunch of boxes of old Windows upgrades in your closet with the paper manuals and silver discs? of course not.

I do like the liner notes from silver discs and over the years I've learned a lot about music from reading those. OTOH these days all that info is on line to access too.

silver discs? that's so 1989. but we all have our own way to view the world I guess.

 

[zztop7]

I routinely give many CDs away. Not worth my time to sell. If I do not love a track on a CD, it is out of here.
zz

 

[asiufy]

I'm with Mike.

The one thing CD had going for it, convenience, is just what made them obselete with downloads. C'mon, nobody is sticking with CDs for the jewel cases or the tiny artwork/booklets, right?

Now, it just makes more sense to buy downloads and/or LPs, and that's what I usually do. Physical CDs only when that's the only option, or when the LP is stupidly expensive.


alexandre

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

'"it's resale value".

don't mean to blow out your bubble, but unless you own very specific CD's the resale value of most silver/gold discs is close to nothing. I have 4000+ CD's, and maybe 1500 SACD's. I doubt I could get more than $2-$3 for 85-90% of them. maybe 150 to 250 of them have value to sell due to special aspects of these discs, but most are close to worthless.....not worth the time to photograph, list them, and deal with selling them. I know that the effort to sell most CD's on line would never be worth the time it took or the hassle.

I'm certainly well aware of the fact that the resale value of CD has bottomed-out, but that wasn't my point. Whether $2 or $10, it is still represents some value that can be applied to other purchases.

have you ever sold any large group of digital discs for any large dollar amount? I seriously doubt it. it's almost hard to give them away. and if I've burned those discs to my hard drive I cannot legally sell them to someone else or even give them away since I would lose my legal right to use the burned files.

Don't assume things of which you know nothing. I have indeed sold a 500+ CD collection in one shot for well over $5 each, and quite frankly it couldn't have come at a better time. I didn't want to sell them, but I'm glad I had a tangible product to sell. Try doing that with your d/l files.

Oh, and on the matter of not being able to legally sell them. Don't you think I'm aware that? But remember, that is not the real world. I'm glad to hear however that you've risen above that and can afford to take a loss on everything you sell. I can't.

Very important: I DO NOT illegally download or own any pirated software of any kind.

I know one reason I stopped buying discs is I have no more shelf space to store them. and downloads solves that problem, and additionally they are easier to use and sound better.

They are easier to use. As far as storage, I don't have your problem, so it's a non-issue for me.

I do respect that there is 'comfort' in holding something in your hand as opposed to a file on your hard drive. but really how is that any different than the software you have for your computer. does it give you comfort knowing than you have a bunch of boxes of old Windows upgrades in your closet with the paper manuals and silver discs? of course not.

Bad analogy Mike and you know it. Don't compare music or video with computer software. And yes, I love the tactile feel of the booklet and reading the liner notes.

silver discs? that's so 1989. but we all have our own way to view the world I guess.

We do have our ways indeed. I'm glad to like mine!

 

[microstrip]

(...)

I do like the liner notes from silver discs and over the years I've learned a lot about music from reading those. OTOH these days all that info is on line to access too.

silver discs? that's so 1989. but we all have our own way to view the world I guess.

Mike,

I have to disagree. On classical music and jazz, most of the valuable information you can get on liner notes and associated books is not available online.