Just got my bill for January's heath insurance, it more than doubled to $733, thanks.

[Steve williams]

Now that's funny Gavin. Sounds like a fraternity initiation ritual.

I kind of thought of it as yodeling

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

..give it up david. Arguing pro-conservative politics here is akin to playing pick up sticks with your butt cheeks..

Speaking of sticks...back to the Winter Classic Leafs-Wings game.

 

[mep]

Question: Does anyone on this site truly believe that the leaders of the USA truly care about the general public?

Mep was wise to bring up the wars that the leaders just throw us into [NO public vote on the decision].

zz.

Here is my take on what politicians care about in order of importance:

1. Getting elected to office.
2. Getting reelected to office.
3. Taking care of the money that put them in office.
4. Showboating for their constituency.
5. Pretending they care about Americans and not just the special interest groups that help get them elected.
6. Acting outraged at the appropriate time/on-cue so they can confirm their sanctimonious hypocritical windbag status to people smart enough to see through their nonsense.

 

[ddk]

..give it up david. Arguing pro-conservative politics here is akin to playing pick up sticks with your butt cheeks..

I would say that's a reasonable assumption! But it might be something we have to learn to match progressive logic!

david

 

[rbbert]

Don't need to answer this do I!



Please, produce some data of these measures and not just a blog with leftist talking points. Of course there's great, bad, mediocre and **** quality doctors and service providers around and I'm not arguing with extremely high costs associated with our healthcare today, I just don't see obcare fixing any of it. I have nothing against improving our system everything can be made better if you know what you're doing.

My argument is against a law passed without anyone reading it and one that's so intrusive in our lives and its proponent is a major liar on record. This is what you on the left don't want to admit or face.

david

You just don't get it, do you? I'm not defending the PCACA, I'm criticizing our current health care system. It's broken and it needs to be fixed. The PCACA is an attempt to do that, which is more than can be said for any of its attacks and attackers. Repealing it and/or criticizing it does nothing to address the existing, worsening problems with our health care (independent of the PCACA).

I reread the last day's posts on this thread and find none that attack Romney. They do mention that he sponsored and passed a law similar to the PCACA when he was governor of MA, but that doesn't sound like an attack to me.

The Wikipedia provides plenty of data on the deficiencies of our health and our health care system. If you actually cared, you would already know this and perhaps have read further some of the references given there.

 

[ddk]

You just don't get it, do you? I'm not defending the PCACA, I'm criticizing our current health care system. It's broken and it needs to be fixed. The PCACA is an attempt to do that, which is more than can be said for any of its attacks and attackers. Repealing it and/or criticizing it does nothing to address the existing, worsening problems with our health care (independent of the PCACA).

But you are defending it my friend. You don't even know what's in it and your standing by it when you say its an attempt at fixing things. This law has nothing to do with healthcare, I don't understand why you're arguing healthcare quality. Just sit back and think about it; a shadow law that has IRS enforcing it, the same agency that has all our personal information and social security nos., yet there's suddenly an army of unknown strangers there that no one vetted for you to forcibly by law to hand over the same personal information about yourself. Why don't you question a law that no one was allowed to read? Then we can argue the state of healthcare that you say its broken yet on all accounts it was functioning on all 12 cylinders.

I reread the last day's posts on this thread and find none that attack Romney. They do mention that he sponsored and passed a law similar to the PCACA when he was governor of MA, but that doesn't sound like an attack to me.

Ask Myles who made that statement.

The Wikipedia provides plenty of data on the deficiencies of our health and our health care system. If you actually cared, you would already know this and perhaps have read further some of the references given there.

I'm not arguing healthcare, its OBAMACARE! Our system is imperfect, not broken by any means. Find another nation on this planet with as modern as our best, with same amount of dollars donated to cancer, aids, etc., research. Any other country outside of Israel with the same no. of medical and technological breakthroughs as us and then we'll talk. Show me hospitals better than our Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Mayo Clinic, New York-Presbyterian University Hospital of Columbia and Cornell, Wilmer Eye Institute, Johns Hopkins Hospital, National Jewish Health, Denver-University of Colorado Hospital, to name a few, there are many more. Please show me even 1 other nation in the world that anywhere close and I'll start listening. Again why aren't you questioning a law that turns everyone's life upside down and no one was allowed to read instead of criticizing the best healthcare, flawed as it is, known to mankind.

david

 

[Mosin]

Here is my take on what politicians care about in order of importance:

1. Getting elected to office.
2. Getting reelected to office.
3. Taking care of the money that put them in office.
4. Showboating for their constituency.
5. Pretending they care about Americans and not just the special interest groups that help get them elected.
6. Acting outraged at the appropriate time/on-cue so they can confirm their sanctimonious hypocritical windbag status to people smart enough to see through their nonsense.

Exactly. The argument between Democrat and Republican politicians isn't about what is fair for their fellow citizens. It's about who gets to screw us, and how.

 

[MylesBAstor]

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/12/31/3109041/10000-lost-coverage-obamacare/

 

[ddk]

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/12/31/3109041/10000-lost-coverage-obamacare/

There's a middle eastern proverb; "Who stays behind the rat but the rat's tail!"

There's so much spin here I'm getting vertigo….

 

[rbbert]

ddk-, I'm not going to quote your whole post, but the fact is that our health care is ridiculously expensive with very poor results to show for it. Our per capita health care expenditures are almost 50% higher than any other country in the world and more than twice as high as the developed world median. Life expectancy in the USA is 37th in the world, the WHO ranked our health care 27th overall, the rates of teenage pregnancy, premature birth, inadequately treated hypertension and diabetes, obesity, etc. are higher than most developed countries. We do indeed have good hospitals and doctors, many of which, BTW, are primarily federally funded or even government operated; that does the country itself little good if a large part of the population can't take advantage of them, which is apparently the case

 

[ddk]

ddk-, I'm not going to quote your whole post, but the fact is that our health care is ridiculously expensive with very poor results to show for it. Our per capita health care expenditures are almost 50% higher than any other country in the world and more than twice as high as the developed world median. Life expectancy in the USA is 37th in the world, the WHO ranked our health care 27th overall, the rates of teenage pregnancy, premature birth, inadequately treated hypertension and diabetes, obesity, etc. are higher than most developed countries. We do indeed have good hospitals and doctors, many of which, BTW, are primarily federally funded or even government operated; that does the country itself little good if a large part of the population can't take advantage of them, which is apparently the case

I won't argue a single point here, you still haven't answered how does obcare fix any of this. Some of the things you bring up like teenage pregnancy have deeper causes from cultural to our welfare system to education system, take the welfare away from single mothers and see how quickly that changes. Tell me how's obcare taking care of these issues.

 

[es347]

I would say that's a reasonable assumption! But it might be something we have to learn to match progressive logic!

david

..progressive and logic are exclusionary....they cannot be used in the same sentence..insert smiley face

 

[ddk]

..progressive and logic are exclusionary....they cannot be used in the same sentence..insert smiley face

 

[rbbert]

I won't argue a single point here, you still haven't answered how does obcare fix any of this. Some of the things you bring up like teenage pregnancy have deeper causes from cultural to our welfare system to education system, take the welfare away from single mothers and see how quickly that changes. Tell me how's obcare taking care of these issues.

I said it before and I'll say it again, the PCACA may or may not do anything positive or negative. Mentioned in a previous thread on this topic was the fact that the PCACA ended up nothing like how it started out and no one really knew everything in it at the time of its passage. Nevertheless, addressing (not necessarily "solving") those problems I mentioned was one of the original proposal's primary stated purposes. I'd love to see something better come along, but that doesn't seem to interest anyone in power. Many Republicans simply want to repeal it, and many (but fewer) Democrats defend it. No one's making much noise about improving or replacing it. No, I don't want it repealed, so I guess that makes me a supporter, albeit a reluctant one.

 

[zztop7]

CED - Chief Executive Dishwasher

Chill. Heavy drinking / smoking / obesity etc. will get you a hike in premiums now and after Obamacare kicks in. Pre-existing conditions (through now fault of your own) makes you uninsurable now, but not under Obamacare. Not such a bad idea if you ask me.

"Chill." Yes I am. Decades ago I used to make excellent money building businesses [generally working a of minimum 80 hour weeks]. As decades went by, continually increasing taxes & regulations [federal, state, county, local] took ALL the profit & enjoyment out of it.

I gave myself the title: CED - Chief Executive Dishwasher.

I stopped building businesses - Chilling.

Sorry it took so long to answer; very busy holidays.

zz.

 

[edorr]

"Chill." Yes I am. Decades ago I used to make excellent money building businesses [generally working a of minimum 80 hour weeks]. As decades went by, continually increasing taxes & regulations [federal, state, county, local] took ALL the profit & enjoyment out of it.

During that same period, close to 100% of GDP growth accrued to the top 10% earners, and taxes actually went down. May be you were just in the wrong line of work.