Let's Get A Consensus Of The Best DAC's In The Market Today

[microstrip]

Yes this is the reason the Lampi's are so popular. DIY projects, for the commercial market.

In what sense do you consider the Lampizator's to be an example of being popular because of the DIY? I do not consider changing tubes a DIY activity. But yes, I would like to have real numbers about Lampizator community and sales.

BTW, did you ever build an Heathkit?

 

[microstrip]

(...) In any case the expectation bias he referred to was clearly for one's OWN DIY projects. Surely you got that!

Happy you got it ...

 

[Blizzard]

In what sense do you consider the Lampizator's to be an example of being popular because of the DIY? I do not consider changing tubes a DIY activity. But yes, I would like to have real numbers about Lampizator community and sales.

BTW, did you ever build an Heathkit?

Just the way they are constructed. Hand built, point to point wiring, mostly thru hole components, use of several 3rd party components intended for the DIY market etc.. Never said it's a bad thing, just looks like a DIY project, only pre-assembled with a commercial price tag.

No never built an Heathkit.

 

[FrantzM]

No, they are popular because they sound good. Tons of other 1 man shops out there far less popular, though now Lampizator is a 8 people venture, not counting distributor partners.

In any case the expectation bias he referred to was clearly for one's OWN DIY projects. Surely you got that!

Never heard a Lamp so can't comment on how they sound.. But this is how the High ENd started and strived .. some passionate DIY who made a good product and had the business sense to build a company around it .. That last part is much more complicated than it seems and more than one great product/brand has been undone by the lack of business acument/sense/fundamentals ...

To my ears the Auralic Vega is one superlative DAC... The whole High End industry is predicated on higher price= higher performance so when it is compared to mega$ DAC then the field is not level... On its own and if there would be a method (knowledge removed is despised on its many forms ) acceptable to audiophiles to remove the dollar-bias more than one would be more than surprised by the Vega ... We will dance around he subject deny it but it is a strong component of preference/decision in our universe... Mosy audiophiles equate the more expensive component with better ... and that before the protagonists play one note and since they sound certainly different, a vast array of different audiophile adjective most very difficult to comprehend will pop out : "organic", "fluid", more "PRAT",etc to describe the more expensive component or the more impressive looking one ... BTW the Vega is small .. one smallish but well finshed box ... It really but really deserves a serious audition if one is considering the finest available in DACs today.

 

[Blizzard]

Never heard a Lamp so can't comment on how they sound.. But this is how the High ENd started and strived .. some passionate DIY who made a good product and had the business sense to build a company around it .. That last part is much more complicated than it seems and more than one great product/brand has been undone by the lack of business acument/sense/fundamentals ...

To my ears the Auralic Vega is one superlative DAC... The whole High End industry is predicated on higher price= higher performance so when it is compared to mega$ DAC then the field is not level... On its own and if there would be a method (knowledge removed is despised on its many forms ) acceptable to audiophiles to remove the dollar-bias more than one would be more than surprised by the Vega ... We will dance around he subject deny it but it is a strong component of preference/decision in our universe... Mosy audiophiles equate the more expensive component with better ... and that before the protagonists play one note and since they sound certainly different, a vast array of different audiophile adjective most very difficult to comprehend will pop out : "organic", "fluid", more "PRAT",etc to describe the more expensive component or the more impressive looking one ... BTW the Vega is small .. one smallish but well finshed box ... It really but really deserves a serious audition if one is considering the finest available in DACs today.

Yes the Vega is a very good DAC for the price. However, I'm selling a 5 month old Resonessence Labs Mirus with factory upgraded master clock for $3000 that is quite a few steps above the Vega. Comparing the 2 is night and day. It was designed by the designer of the ESS chip the Vega uses to be the finest implementation of the chip on the market. It also uses 2 of them in monoblock mode for the best performance possible. And let's not forget it also has the best sounding transport I've ever seen built right in. The SD card transport as a bonus.

 

[HedgeHog]

It still is USD$499: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-237197-ifi-micro-idsd-dac.aspx


How would one consider/rank the Chord DAVE and Schiit Yggdrasil in the big scheme of things? Mid-end? Punch above their weight? Not even part of the conversation?

I'm curious.

-H

 

[wisnon]

It still is USD$499: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-237197-ifi-micro-idsd-dac.aspx


How would one consider/rank the Chord DAVE and Schiit Yggdrasil in the big scheme of things? Mid-end? Punch above their weight? Not even part of the conversation?

I'm curious.

-H

The Dave has serious tech and in my brief listen, it has serious promise too.

 

[adyc]

DAVE has completely opposite approach to DSD from Lampizator DAC. There are a lot of filterings in DAVE. However, Lampizator is just simple low pass filter. Can someone explain the advantages and disadvantages of both approaches?

 

[amirm]

It still is USD$499: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-237197-ifi-micro-idsd-dac.aspx

I bought the Dac2 from Music Direct for just $379. http://www.musicdirect.com/p-343092-ifi-micro-idac2-ipurifier-bundle.aspx. Is that not supposed to be better than the original?

 

[wisnon]

DAVE has completely opposite approach to DSD from Lampizator DAC. There are a lot of filterings in DAVE. However, Lampizator is just simple low pass filter. Can someone explain the advantages and disadvantages of both approaches?

I only heard Dave on PCM. However Rob says the DSD on Dave using the 82K DSD+ filter does not decimate DSD to PCM like Hugo does. Still is FPGA manipulated, so won't be as delicately handled as Lampi DSD that treats DSD sort of like an FM broadcast signal.

 

[wisnon]

I bought the Dac2 from Music Direct for just $379. http://www.musicdirect.com/p-343092-ifi-micro-idac2-ipurifier-bundle.aspx. Is that not supposed to be better than the original?

Yes, better than both iDac 1 and iDSD, due to active power filtering. BB chip, not like Sabre iDac 1 and similar to iDSD. However, iDSD can do dsd512, while idac2 can only do Dsd256.

 

[adyc]

I only heard Dave on PCM. However Rob says the DSD on Dave using the 82K DSD+ filter does not decimate DSD to PCM like Hugo does. Still is FPGA manipulated, so won't be as delicately handled as Lampi DSD that treats DSD sort of like an FM broadcast signal.

Thanks. But why Rob designs this approach compare to simple one. He must has some reasons to think simple filtering is not correct or less superior. I am not saying he is right. Just want to understand his reasons.

Rob is a great DAC designer. I have a lot of respect for him. Back in late 80s and earlier 90s, I owned his own company Deltec/DPA DAC and amps. Great products.

 

[wisnon]

Rob hates DSD and thinks its fundamentally flawed. His initial approach was to decimate and first convert to 2048fs PCM then to lower rate pcm and then analog. Now, he seems to realize that decimation is bad for SQ and is mediating his approach. Also DSD is becoming more popular and so it may be a nod to commercial reality. People want the best in whatever format the music comes in.

He is a PCM advocate, so his main focus is there.

 

[SCAudiophile]

The Lampizator and Auralic are extremely impressive; we should add the Esoteric D-02 to the list. When used alone, particularly with asynchronous
Esoteric bespoke USB driver up to 192, it provides amazing sonics and musicality. When used in 'dual-AES' input mode paired with an Esoteric transport
such as the P-02, I have not heard its equal yet.....

 

[Steve williams]

I heard a new tube DAC yesterday that is bound to give many of the others a run for their money and that was the Talia DAC demoed in the Evolution Acoustics room at THE Show and produced by Joel Durand of tone arm fame. I listened for quite a while yesterday and all I can say is the DAC sounded as good as any I heard yesterday except for the MSB DAC that was also demoed yesterday in the MSB room but that DAC all tricked out could easily cost way north of $100K whereas the Talia although not cheap is rumored to sell for just under$20K. IIRC it uses EL84 tubes and plays to 384 and quad DSD

 

[marty]

One thing is certain about owning a SOA contender DAC. Just wait 2 months. Your wish list will inevitably change again!

I sound like a broken record but the Meitner DA2 gets my vote. Cymbals (hi-hats, etc) are the acid test. Listen to cymbals through any DAC and ask yourself not whether it sounds good. They all do. But ask yourself if you can be convinced the sound is like that coming from live cymbals. The Meitner top end is quite compelling and "natural" in that regard.

Much to my amazement, the DA2 is not even listed on the EMM Meitner website, although it was announced in November 2015 and I took delivery in February 2016, as did others. http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/10/emm-labs-da2-dac-new.html

As an aside, if there were a contest for the audio corporate website that leads the pack in being in arrears, it would be a close race between Meitner and Spectral. I cannot tell you the great warmth I get inside from owning products from companies who think that they can't be bothered with updating their website more than once a year, if at all. Ah, the wonderful and overpriced world of Hi End audio!

 

[SCAudiophile]

Definitely agree with all these points...cymbals, other 'world percussion' instruments, native American (North and South continents) and Asian wind instruments, a unique instrument called the "hang" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_(instrument)), piano, violin, etc...are all 'crucibles' in which to evaluate how good a DAC is. I've heard alot of great feedback for the DA2 as of late...the D-02 here
gives great sonics and musical results in all regards. With regards to cymbals, guitar strings, etc....you can hear 'the color' of the musical instrument and can tell the type of metal/other substance that instruments are made of.....I'd like to know more about the Meitner latest offerings and other contenders (DCS among others). Given all the huge improvements in the last year or so, it's time to critically listen to new components again!

 

[morricab]

I think it is hard to say which DAC is really the "best" but I think one thing that has advanced in recent years is the recognition that the power supply and the output stage are of vital importance to get the very best out of whatever technology DAC chip one is using.

That said, it seems that it is becoming more apparent that a true ladder DAC is superior for the reproduction of PCM material. DSD is a totally other matter because in principal one doesn't need a chip at all to do the conversion (as Lampizator and perhaps others have demonstrated). Now, discrete R2R seems to be the rage but I am not convinced these are superior to the best chips of the 90s (BBPCM63, BBPCM1704, AD1862N, AD1865N, UltraAnalog D20400 etc.) but it sure is cool to see it all laid out on a board. Interestingly, probably the earliest company to go all discrete in the DAC was Accuphase (DC81 is a discrete 16 bit DAC and the DC81L is a discrete 20 bit DAC).

It is interesting that Lampizator is so highly touted, not because the stuff is overrated as it is in fact very good, but that he was far from the first to put tubes in the output stage of a DAC (California Audio Labs might hold that disctinction or STAX or Sonic Frontiers) but he is one of the first to "go all out" on the design of the output stage. The GG is quite impressive this way. An even more extreme expression is the new Kassandra II DAC from Aries Cerat, with 32 DAC chips in parallel and a massive power supply and tube output stage. Might be the best in the world for PCM...then of course there is the top Audio Note DAC 5 version that is also simple for the DA conversion and complex and ambitious for the output stage.

I don't think there is a single SS output DAC I have heard that truly competes with some of those mentioned above (or even a STAX X-1T for that matter from 25 years ago) for PCM. I have heard the absolute top effort from Esoteric, from DCS, MSB, Meitner etc. and there is not the same refinement and tonal correctness that the the great tube DACs bring to the party.

 

[bonzo75]

The thing is one doesn't have to buy the GG and Big 7 gets you there, and at a great price. The Cassandra must be good but at the price I would put down a deposit towards a bigger room and get bigger horns or the Grands, or a Thorens reference or Micro Seiki 8000 with all arms and carts set up

 

[bonzo75]

Also being just a tubed dac like AN is not what the Big 7 and the GG are - the Big 6 and below were tube dacs - the Big 7 above are DHT, which lets you put the best tubes in audio at the top of the electronics chain. Right now Lukasz is in Czech republic talking to Eunice Kron. He has started selling at great prices KR tubes and specially made for Lampi tubes from EML. Won't be surprised if KR starts designing special tubes for him.