Believe High Fidelity brings 4 new Analog lines to the USA!

[Believe High Fidelity]

Hello WBF members,


Rather than post on separate threads for each line or the specific products I will have on hand I feel it will be much easier for me to manage this single thread as it all relates to Analog anyway. Here are the newest lines available to you in North America...


Etsuro Urushi Japan






The product line consists of two models currently with a third on the way:

The Bordeaux - 8,000 USD
The Cobalt Blue - 4500 USD

Specifications are identical save for the body of the Cobalt Blue is made from Super Duralumin vs the Bordeaux is a Sapphire plate.

- Moving Coil
- 15-50,000HZ
- .25mV/1khz output
- <.5db/1khz output balance
- 33db/1khz Channel separation
- 2gr tracking weight
- 80 µM microline diamond Stylus shape
- Sapphire pipe cantilever
- 2.5mm Sapphire plate for the base (Super Duralumin for the Cobalt)
- Super Duralumin cartridge housing (A7505)
- Urushi housing
- 9gr weight (8.1gr for the Cobalt)

All hand made in-house.

**My thoughts - I would say over 80% of the high end clientele I have worked with use Lyra Atlas or Lyra Etna cartridges. Given the lack of inventory and long lead times I wanted to find a similar alternative to present and I believe I have found that. The Bordeaux will be reviewed by the AVShowrooms in the coming months so keep on the lookout for that review. The Cobalt Blue will debut at LSAF in Dallas with a JWM Karan turntable and will be used in a number of systems local to Austin so I can give a more accurate representation of its performance.


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Torqueo Audio Turntables






The most apparent thing you will notice is the handcrafted design of the table. The Teflon bearing is able to safely withstand the weight of their flywheels including copper matte "CU2900" throughout has weight of about 6 kg, and clamp 450g. (Both are included on our demo model)

Their laboratory stress-test turntable has been tested for daily for three years on their Teflon bearing design. After 3 years it measured a 2 tenths of a millimeter consumption. Taking into account for this effect of durability, their bearings are superior with the proper height setting. This ensures a long life. We are not able to accurately assess the duration of life based on these results, but we are certain that it will provide many years with daily use and no negative impact on the sound until your grandkids destroy it

All of their efforts were focused in solving the problem of wow and flutter. They have improved the engines with quality
bearings, with the most tuner motors with capacitor precise value. They carry with very heavy mechanical components and use all the measurements to improve the movement All this does not eliminate 100% the wow and flutter, but it is so low that it is not audible.

There fine speed adjustment that can be carried out in a very simple way, only in "B12gh exclusive" is less simple, but
with the instructions anyone is able to do it.

To enjoy high quality reproduction of "DRIVE IDLER" you can not use electronic equipment system to control speed. The philosophy of "IDLER DRIVE" is simplicity, no remote control no lights for special effects, but only strength and reliability.

The portfolio has a number models with aesthetic design as the core driver for which table would be the one you want.

Ardesia 8500 USD
Marsala 8500 USD
Olive 8000 USD
B12 GH 9500 USD
Zebrano (c) 9500 USD
Noce (c) 8500

Pilastro - 2500 USD
Clamp - 350 USD

(c) designation allows for outboard Tonearm base Pliastro to be used with a compact version of the table

**My thoughts - As a big fan of Garrard Idler turntables there are many options to own restored ones on the used market with upgraded designs and beautiful Plinths. However at their cost and the fact they most are usually just swapping chassis for a unique wood design Torqueo hit all my boxes in a big way. The attention to detail and design philosophy designing a truly modern Idler drive table was too good to pass up.


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Primary Control

Also a maker of turntables, their speciality is the bespoke designs of their reference tonearms. You are allowed your choice of tonearm length 9", 10.5", or 12". Arm body has options for Ebony Grenadil, Snakewood or Titanium Carbon as standard. You can also add extra mass to the headshell plate or counterweight for more or less control of tracking force. Full review of the reference model can be read at Tone Audio here

Product line:

Arrow Tonearm 10.5" 3900 USD

Reference Tonearm - Starting at 5900 9"

Kinea DD Turntable - 14000 USD


**My thoughts - With all the great arms out there to choose from it was a very tough choice on the tonearm. I felt the overall flexibility of length and body options were a great value add to an already well recognized design were a unique option in today's market


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Echo Diastasis

Now here was a dark horse in the making. Echo Diastasis pioneered a design for a Solid State circuit that was able to perform without the use any feedback in a dual mono design without use top shelf equipment to keep the price affordable. And the design despite being Solid State is still kept single ended. I love innovation so i was tickled pink to find out more, but sadly the special brand of secret sauce is so secret that I have zero details to share on the designs...





Product Line

I79 Integrated Amplifier - 3850 USD

PH 79 Phonostage - 3600 USD

PRE 79 Preamplifier - 3200 USD

A79 Stereo Amp - 3000 USD


**My thoughts - I have heard only compression from designs using feedback so whenever I look for a product to review for the portfolio there are several criteria I lean on for the selection process. While I am no longer a believer in SS being the best way to design in electronics all of the design considerations this product achieved at the price point was one area I was willing to overlook and I am glad that I did.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Joshua, further to my comment on Ked's Zero Distortion thread, I believe you've ordered the Jarrett Koln concert 2LP
So, will you play it on the Torqueo?
Can you post further details on this tt, their website is frustratingly vague?

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Joshua, further to my comment on Ked's Zero Distortion thread, I believe you've ordered the Jarrett Koln concert 2LP
So, will you play it on the Torqueo?
Can you post further details on this tt, their website is frustratingly vague?

Yes, been updating my LP collection with more challenging music to really put the Torqueo through its paces. The Primary Control Tonearm and Zebrano table will arrive around the same time (late May/early June). Will do a full breakdown and report at that time.

If you have any specifics on the table line you will like to know I would be happy to answer or find out for you.

Carts I am currently playing with

 

[spiritofmusic]

It's more that:
There is fleeting info as to the differences btwn models other than finishes
Some ambiguity as to whether some models are refurbed idlers like Artisan Fidelity and some are ground-up new designs, which are which?
Absolutely nothing on reviews, and esp dealers
Nothing on their provenance

Can you fill in the gaps?
Prices c €8-10k seem very reasonable for the level of engineering and materials/aesthetics
But there are SO many links to "interesting" new gear esp on MonoStereo that never amount to anything that I'm wary of any new kid on the block tt designs

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

It's more that:
There is fleeting info as to the differences btwn models other than finishes
Some ambiguity as to whether some models are refurbed idlers like Artisan Fidelity and some are ground-up new designs, which are which?
Absolutely nothing on reviews, and esp dealers
Nothing on their provenance

Can you fill in the gaps?
Prices c €8-10k seem very reasonable for the level of engineering and materials/aesthetics
But there are SO many links to "interesting" new gear esp on MonoStereo that never amount to anything that I'm wary of any new kid on the block tt designs

There lack of information between models is more due to the lack of differences between them. The Zebrano, Zebrano compact, Noce and BH12 are the top models in the lineup only because there is extra mass in a MK2 design. The other models will eventually have the same plinth design so it really comes down to aesthetics between which design best suits your eyes. The idler drive is OEM and not a refurb and is the same unit used in all the tables within the lineup. This is why the pricing is almost identical amongst all of the options available.

Given the rebranded/refurb options on the market (like Artisan Fidelity) and the prices for a chassis swap an maybe a tune up on the idler this is a HUGE bargain for both design and build quality. Definitely not just a looker. I have refined the criteria in which I make selections and while there are a lot of interesting stuff out now and being launched this was one of those no-brainer things for me.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Joshua, so you're saying the choices are purely aesthetic, the mechanicals are all (fairly) identical?
If this is the case, then these are the cheapest new design idlers out there
I have been very interested in the PTP Solid 12 using reconditioned Lenco L75 parts and motor w new bearing and composite plinth, but for maybe 3x as much, a reasonable price upstick, maybe the Torqueo should be on my list
No UK dealer listed, or any dealer
A little trip to Italy, maybe...?

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Joshua, so you're saying the choices are purely aesthetic, the mechanicals are all (fairly) identical?
If this is the case, then these are the cheapest new design idlers out there
I have been very interested in the PTP Solid 12 using reconditioned Lenco L75 parts and motor w new bearing and composite plinth, but for maybe 3x as much, a reasonable price upstick, maybe the Torqueo should be on my list
No UK dealer listed, or any dealer
A little trip to Italy, maybe...?

Affirmative. At 8k for just the table I wouldn't say cheap though unless you are rolling in the dough

As far as I am aware there is no UK dealer so you can reach out to Oscar directly and tell him Masongsong sent you. He does sell direct when there is no dealer/distributor, but these are one pager manuals to put together (except the B12 is slightly more complicated) so I would keep it on your shortlist.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Joshua or Masongsong?
Willdo
8k is chump change in today's exponentially rising high end prices
If they sound as good as they look, 8k will be money well spent
Are you investing in the seperate arm pod model, or all in one fully integrated?
I get the advantages of seperating arm and plinth re vibration control esp in an idler drive, but there are so many issues in setup going out of adjustment by not keeping things all together

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Joshua or Masongsong?
Willdo
8k is chump change in today's exponentially rising high end prices
If they sound as good as they look, 8k will be money well spent
Are you investing in the seperate arm pod model, or all in one fully integrated?
I get the advantages of seperating arm and plinth re vibration control esp in an idler drive, but there are so many issues in setup going out of adjustment by not keeping things all together

Everyone that gets to know me well eventually calls me by my last name Masongsong.

We did order a Pilastro outboard tonearm base as well as the copper mat and the light clamp. I like the idea if I get arms of various lengths I have the flexibility of the outboard base over the convenience. Not to mention we now distribute the brand so we want to have all available for folks to ooohh and ahhhh over

 

[spiritofmusic]

And most importantly, have you heard them?
8k is an amazing sweet spot for what at least looks like a potentially excellent performer
Hopefully the quality is not just skin deep
Since I switched to rim drive, I cannot quite see myself going ever back to belt
Rim and idlers just convey the message and intent of music so much more forthrightly

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

And most importantly, have you heard them?
8k is an amazing sweet spot for what at least looks like a potentially excellent performer
Hopefully the quality is not just skin deep
Since I switched to rim drive, I cannot quite see myself going ever back to belt
Rim and idlers just convey the message and intent of music so much more forthrightly

I dont think it is skin deep. I have had modded Garrad and have heard many in other systems to know the benefits over belt (and some DD) Based on the feedback from my clients who have heard Torqueo overseas it was worth the sight unseen business agreement.

i will know for sure in a month if I am wrong (but I dont think I am....)

 

[spiritofmusic]

Joshua, looking fwds to yr report
It's on my radar, w caveat that I'm reluctant to buy w no local distribr
But I love the concept, engineering, materials, execution and price

Also, as we've established, we both love the idler sound, I really do need to know if this tt truly combined the rhythmic insistence and percussive impact of the best Garrard 301-type presentations, but w little or none of the rumble/noise
I love the energy and drive of my current rim drive tt, but have some nagging doubts re noise transmission from rim wheel to platter to stylus that may be masking ultimate transparency, low level detail, microdynamics, and high end extension/shimmer

 

[beaur]

Any of these new brands going to be at the Munich show? Look interesting enough to pay a visit if they are.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Joshua, looking fwds to yr report
It's on my radar, w caveat that I'm reluctant to buy w no local distribr
But I love the concept, engineering, materials, execution and price

Also, as we've established, we both love the idler sound, I really do need to know if this tt truly combined the rhythmic insistence and percussive impact of the best Garrard 301-type presentations, but w little or none of the rumble/noise
I love the energy and drive of my current rim drive tt, but have some nagging doubts re noise transmission from rim wheel to platter to stylus that may be masking ultimate transparency, low level detail, microdynamics, and high end extension/shimmer

So far I have only seen the addition of noise from a idler when it is a worn bearing or bad design (re-design). The coupling of the Idler wheel is non audible WOW and flutter so I am eager to report that there is no such concerns.

As a side note Primary Control offers a DD turntable for 12k as well for not much more.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Any of these new brands going to be at the Munich show? Look interesting enough to pay a visit if they are.

Primary Control will be at Munich in the Atrium 4.2 Room F231C. I also distribute Aries Cerat which will be in Room P13 in Hall 3.

Say hello for me if you end up stopping by.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Joshua, a couple of things
I don't quite get the reasoning for DD w low torque in the Primary Control tt
Surely high torque is a pre requisite for ability to maintain speed stability thru groove/stylus resistance
Additionally, by definition any idler wheel introduces more rumble into a tt than belt, even a modern day design like the Torqueo
One cannot surmise just from listening whether rumble is present or not, measurements would be needed
But I take yr word that listening can be a good estimation for deleterious effects of rumble, just not a decisively accurate method

 

[spiritofmusic]

Joshua, are you going to be stocking the Primary Control Kinea DD tt as well?
A Torqueo v Kinea compare would be v interesting

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Joshua, a couple of things
I don't quite get the reasoning for DD w low torque in the Primary Control tt
Surely high torque is a pre requisite for ability to maintain speed stability thru groove/stylus resistance
Additionally, by definition any idler wheel introduces more rumble into a tt than belt, even a modern day design like the Torqueo
One cannot surmise just from listening whether rumble is present or not, measurements would be needed
But I take yr word that listening can be a good estimation for deleterious effects of rumble, just not a decisively accurate method

The value of the low torque design lies in the drawbacks of the DD design itself. High torque while desireable, can also have its drawbacks if not done to a very high standard. This is the sole reason why you see a ton of belt over Idler and DD. One of the best DD I have heard was at Albert's home in Dallas and that was modified in every way shape and form to correct the shortcomings of the Technics platform.

There is only so much torque that you really need and if you can avoid the introduction of needing a speed correcting mechanism. Ultimately, preconceptions of what something "should be" or "should do" often get in the way of appreciating a new design if it challenges the status quo. This is the case of the Kinea table

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Joshua, are you going to be stocking the Primary Control Kinea DD tt as well?
A Torqueo v Kinea compare would be v interesting

Eventually. Having a dedicated line of tables through Torqueo I want to get that off the ground before introducing more options. Since primary control main focus is tonearms I want to help the NA market identify the brand with the bread and butter of what they mainly produce. Hard to market two turntable options at once.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure, I get that
I'm planning a little road trip this Summer/Autumn to Europe, and will try to get to listen to 3-4 tts incl Torqueo, Primary Control, Peter Reinders PTP Solid 12 and maybe Schopper Thorens 124
It may not happen, but these are the non belt drive options under €12-15k that I want to experience to have data points v the only belt drive I'd consider upgrading to from my rim drive, the Kuzma Stabi M
Stabi M, top Torqueo w Pilastro arm pod and platter mat/clamp options, and Primary Control Kinea are all in the same ball park pricewise
Schopper Thorens maybe 2/3 this cost, and PTP Solid 12 more affordable still
My budget will run to €12-15k but really not much more, esp w tonearm needing to be budgeted for as well