Why is today's pop music so terrible?
- Thread starter Don C
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Guys,
It's not about banality. There's always been simple music. But what the video clearly shows is that it is *OBJECTIVELY* more so now than ever, and worse, the banality level has reached new heights.
And the video even gives the reasons behid it. Before, the top 10 was filled with multiple, very different artists. Now, they're all interchangeable. Take a song from #3 and give it to #9, and I'm sure it's going to sound exactly the same. Songs are written to a formula, by the same 2 or 3 guys. And instead of real songwriters, you have people going after "samples", beats from old records, to be used in their songs.
Remember, they are talking top 10 stuff. The vast majority of music being produced today is good and decent, and I actually can't keep up with all the cool new stuff out there (thanks for that, Tidal!). But the top 10 stuff? C'mon, the dumbing down is clear.
Here's Billboard's Top 100 for 1969
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1969
Compare to *this*:
http://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2016/hot-100-songs
alex
It's not about banality. There's always been simple music. But what the video clearly shows is that it is *OBJECTIVELY* more so now than ever, and worse, the banality level has reached new heights.
And the video even gives the reasons behid it. Before, the top 10 was filled with multiple, very different artists. Now, they're all interchangeable. Take a song from #3 and give it to #9, and I'm sure it's going to sound exactly the same. Songs are written to a formula, by the same 2 or 3 guys. And instead of real songwriters, you have people going after "samples", beats from old records, to be used in their songs.
Remember, they are talking top 10 stuff. The vast majority of music being produced today is good and decent, and I actually can't keep up with all the cool new stuff out there (thanks for that, Tidal!). But the top 10 stuff? C'mon, the dumbing down is clear.
Here's Billboard's Top 100 for 1969
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1969
Compare to *this*:
http://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2016/hot-100-songs
alex
That bit about the millennial whoop cracked me up. I've hated it from the time I was a teenager. They even put a clip of Tarzan Boy from 1985 which is probably the song I hated most then and continue to to this day.
Then there's the general midi synths of the 80s, u-uh vocal inflection of the 90s, autotune of the 00s. People hate today's country which to me sounds an awful lot like a some of 70's Pop. Lady Antebellum anyone?
Still I think the problem is that there is just more garbage to wade through before we find anything worth recycling. Back in our youth we had peers doing the curation for radio that helped us along. These days we're on our own.
I listen to what my kids are into and actually I've learned a lot from my eldest daughter. My second daughter is totally retro and knows 70s and 80s lyrics by heart. It's a fun thing to observe.
Today there are a handful of pop artists I think that have been consistent. Bruno Mars, C-Lo, Elie Goulding, Ne-Yo, Rihanna, John Legend, Alicia Keys. Then there are the tweeners that are finally growing up like The Weeknd, Bieber and Drake. What they all have in common is that they are not of the cookie cutter molds and are now the molds. LOL
I'm with Frantz here. Pop means POPular. There's a lot of non-mainstream music to be had outside of pop but pop is the topic of this thread.
Then there's the general midi synths of the 80s, u-uh vocal inflection of the 90s, autotune of the 00s. People hate today's country which to me sounds an awful lot like a some of 70's Pop. Lady Antebellum anyone?
Still I think the problem is that there is just more garbage to wade through before we find anything worth recycling. Back in our youth we had peers doing the curation for radio that helped us along. These days we're on our own.
I listen to what my kids are into and actually I've learned a lot from my eldest daughter. My second daughter is totally retro and knows 70s and 80s lyrics by heart. It's a fun thing to observe.
Today there are a handful of pop artists I think that have been consistent. Bruno Mars, C-Lo, Elie Goulding, Ne-Yo, Rihanna, John Legend, Alicia Keys. Then there are the tweeners that are finally growing up like The Weeknd, Bieber and Drake. What they all have in common is that they are not of the cookie cutter molds and are now the molds. LOL
I'm with Frantz here. Pop means POPular. There's a lot of non-mainstream music to be had outside of pop but pop is the topic of this thread.
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I'd have to disagree with you on the diversity here Alex. Even within genres these artists aren't interchangeable. The only glaring difference is the absence of rock acts and that Pop is now dominated by R&B and that dance music has become mainstream. They've pushed out rock the way rock and roll pushed out Jazz. Kids will always find their own way and that usually means veering away from the music of us their parents.
I have no problem with popular taste veering towards R&B. Matter of fact, if you read that 1969 Top 100 list, you'll see good ol' R&B creeping in there as well. Sly & The Family Stone anyone?
Maybe I'm the minority here, but when I listen to any of those artists you mentioned on the radio, with very few exceptions, I wouldn't know one from the other, specially the female singers. They all sound alike, their songs sound alike. Simply not enough diversity, or variety of timbre, as the video puts.
Maybe I'm the minority here, but when I listen to any of those artists you mentioned on the radio, with very few exceptions, I wouldn't know one from the other, specially the female singers. They all sound alike, their songs sound alike. Simply not enough diversity, or variety of timbre, as the video puts.
There is one thing we forgot to mention: As our young generation grows older and evolves so their taste in music too.
It's a phase that we're all going through.
Me I think music can save our planet, with a universal language of peace for all the races, colors, and ages.
I bet on classical more than rap. And pop? Well, look @ Adele's number of sales, and this:
It's a phase that we're all going through.
Me I think music can save our planet, with a universal language of peace for all the races, colors, and ages.
I bet on classical more than rap. And pop? Well, look @ Adele's number of sales, and this:
Out of curiosity how many of you just use the Billboard nonsense as their only way to look for new music?? There is so much good stuff out there that will probably never get mainstream play. There are so many other sources out there where you can find plenty of music that doesn't fit the top 100 mold.
Rob
Rob
You think that objective and definitive?
how do I say this nicely.... hog wash.
I won't ever get into the self serving criteria used for the "study" but I could do an "objective" study (by those standards) to get any outcome I wanted.
I don't have the time, energy or desire but I could pull apart that "objective" video/study 15 different ways just off the top of my head.
Sorry, it's the same nonsense my parents told me about 60's music.
you do know, classical was popular music too
+1
Also we are simply showing through this thread how old we are and how much we have become like many (some? Our?) parents
Popular music has always been cast under that light by the old (going ) generation ... Nothing new here.. Actually it's pretty old
Out of curiosity how many of you just use the Billboard nonsense as their only way to look for new music?? There is so much good stuff out there that will probably never get mainstream play. There are so many other sources out there where you can find plenty of music that doesn't fit the top 100 mold.
Rob
I tend to use Pitchfork, Tidal, NPR, recommendations from friends and postings on websites.
It is quite amazing how much music is now available andof good quality.
Check out the Mercury nominations this year, from The xx, alt-j to Loyle Carner and Sampha.
And my profile name is my birth year. Not young but music transcends age.
Cheers
Blue58
Sooooooooooooooooo many great ways to source new music today.
I love the "what are you listening to threads" and I have several streaming services where I am all over the new releases.
Just a great time to be a music lover.
The study was NOT done by the chap in the video. He does mention who did it, I can't recall who though. But somebody did take the time to analyze pop music through the last decades, and came to that conclusion, and to my ears, that conclusion is precise.
This has nothing to do with being like our parents. I do listen to contemporary stuff, in just about all genres, except the mainstream pap that populates the top 100 these days. That's, how do I say it nicely, dumbed down crap, with simplistic construction and offensive (in more than one way) lyrics.
Again, I'm OK with "simple music", highly melodic stuff, I love early Beatles, and power pop in general. I have no aversion to popular music, just the formulaic crap that passes for the top 100 these days.
Even though I'm old, I'm not that old. I was born in the year rock probably peaked, 1974
cheers,
alex
Pop stars are performers and not necessarily composers. To be successful requires more in the way of good looks than anything else. As the vid said the actual writing/composition is often done by a couple people that work with a lot of current pop performers.
The structure of pop music has become simpler and more formulaic over the years, which is why pop is becoming more homogeneous. Bands that don't fit the mold don't get a chance.
Sound quality is also a problem mostly caused by mastering for car audio and cheap earbuds.
A lot of this isn't super obvious if you're not a musician and/or composer, it goes by unconsciously, but the vid certainly shows an objective dumbing down. This isn't new or surprising info for many of us... it's been happening for a long time now.
It's not like all new pop music is garbage but a lot of it is imo.
The structure of pop music has become simpler and more formulaic over the years, which is why pop is becoming more homogeneous. Bands that don't fit the mold don't get a chance.
Sound quality is also a problem mostly caused by mastering for car audio and cheap earbuds.
A lot of this isn't super obvious if you're not a musician and/or composer, it goes by unconsciously, but the vid certainly shows an objective dumbing down. This isn't new or surprising info for many of us... it's been happening for a long time now.
It's not like all new pop music is garbage but a lot of it is imo.
You mentioned NPR; one of my favorite sites for music expansion today: http://www.npr.org/series/tiny-desk-concerts/
I could post few easily that I love.
* In the video critic of the first post, I mentioned the restricted vision of the critic from yesterday's best to today's worst.
In that restricted view he certainly had some valid points. But in the overall expanded and realistic perspective, and like few members have already said right here;
there are excellent new pop/folk music artists today that would melt anyone from any age.
Yesterday to today ... we have beautiful pop music. It's up to us to search for it, listen to it and appreciate it with joy.
The dance music video I posted earlier; I love it. It's Pop International Dancing Happy music.
And yesterday ... Pop Beatles ...
Why is today's Pop music so terrible? It is not; it's the people with restricted vision who are terrible.
Alright, she's not new.
Fun?
What I like about some of today's new young pop musicians/singers is the unpretentious raw attitude.
Sure he's no Freddy Mercury or Mick Jagger, he's Declan McKenna, and he can play the guitar adequately.
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Hello NorthStar
If you like the NPR TDC checkout KEXP. Org Seatle and Rekavic Iceland their YouTube channels as well as Audiotree Live and their You Tube channels. I use all of them looking for new artists and the Bandcamp site which is loaded with all kinds of music. I also look for small independent record labels and grab the samplers. Milk Records Melbourne Australia is a good example. Found lots of good music doing this. Once you get on the mailing lists you get updated with new releases and also new music you can often sample to see if you like it.
Rob
If you like the NPR TDC checkout KEXP. Org Seatle and Rekavic Iceland their YouTube channels as well as Audiotree Live and their You Tube channels. I use all of them looking for new artists and the Bandcamp site which is loaded with all kinds of music. I also look for small independent record labels and grab the samplers. Milk Records Melbourne Australia is a good example. Found lots of good music doing this. Once you get on the mailing lists you get updated with new releases and also new music you can often sample to see if you like it.
Rob
The study was NOT done by the chap in the video. He does mention who did it, I can't recall who though. But somebody did take the time to analyze pop music through the last decades, and came to that conclusion, and to my ears, that conclusion is precise.
This has nothing to do with being like our parents. I do listen to contemporary stuff, in just about all genres, except the mainstream pap that populates the top 100 these days. That's, how do I say it nicely, dumbed down crap, with simplistic construction and offensive (in more than one way) lyrics.
Again, I'm OK with "simple music", highly melodic stuff, I love early Beatles, and power pop in general. I have no aversion to popular music, just the formulaic crap that passes for the top 100 these days.
Even though I'm old, I'm not that old. I was born in the year rock probably peaked, 1974
cheers,
alex
I can't believe I am answering this....., I know better.... obviously not.
I am well aware that the Spanish national research council did this "research."
Look at it this way, if I took today's music and built an algorithm that consider loudness, lack of timbre and lack of complexity "better," then the interpretation of the results would be completely opposite. Music is getting better. (not worse)
Do I really have to say that these metrics are nothing more than a preference?
and why not say music is getting better? More people listen to modern Pop than ever before. Very happily I might add.
If I set the data and give it values, I can get any result I want.
That is the bottom line.
another thing, this guy's illustrations..... I can pretty much guarantee would be rejected by the SNRC. Pardon me, but, it's just stupid. Honest, at several point I had to turn off the video and then get back to it later because it just gave me douche chills when claiming to be scientific with all his incessant subjective nonesense.
I'd be very surprised if the SNRC endorsed this guy's presentation of their study.
What they really proved was that music today is different in the 3 areas they measured. harmonic complexity, timbral diversity, loudness,
nothing more.
Heck, by these metrics my favorite music, minimalism, would be judged terrible. And why, because they prefer quite, complex music.
Please, if I post in this thread again, somebody just shoot me!!!!!
It's too loud and not complex enough.... not like when I was a kid, so it's "inferior."
see how that works?
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