Does Magico have a "house sound", and if so, how would you describe it?

[microstrip]

(...) Typically, serious audiophiles know that a dedicated mains supply, separate from the normal household supply is required to achieve anything like decent sound. Why? A typical household supply is carried through low grade, poorly insulated, poorly screened cable with multiple, very poorly executed joins and junctions and is subject to the noise generated by dozens of switch mode power supplies, fridge and freezer compressors, light dimmers, motors, and host of other household appliances, all of which inject noise back into the system. Using household or hotel mains for high-end audio is akin to drinking water from the waste water system.
For a set of audio electronics to reach high sound quality standards independent of power supply quality, its power supplies would need to emulate the qualities of both the dedicated mains supply and any further mains conditioning that’s applied. I would submit that such a pre-amplifier and amplifier would require such an over-engineered solution as to be completely unfeasible. Personally I am not aware of any hi-fi electronics that have not been improved by better mains isolation and noise reduction, which according to the logic of the above statement would mean that all the systems that have respond positively to mains improvements are flawed In some respect. (...)

Well ... Should we split audiophiles in two categories, the few serious audiophiles that have a dedicated mains supply and the many non- serious audiophiles that do not have dedicated mains?

I can't write about typical household supplies, mine does not have any of the poor characteristics you refer - it was built with decent quality electrical materials from known brands. Besides I have three dedicated separate power lines in my listening room. In my system I have found that I prefer hooking the whole system on a single dedicated line.

I can connect the whole system to the house power supply or the dedicated lines in a few seconds. Although there is a difference, it is not a night and day difference - much less than for example than just changing power cables. Surely each case is a different case!

IMHO grounding aspects are much more important than just supplying the power. And experts in the field disagree on the optimum layout of power lines for audio systems - as soon we research the subject we find contradictory views on it. Mains isolation and filtering should be avoided according to some people I respect in this hobby. Remember that some devices people call "grounding boxes" are just tuned noise injectors ...

BTW, the US mains distribution system is different from the European one - this aspect can't be ignored when debating this subject.

 

[KeithR]

Any well conceived speaker allows to hear the differences between alternative sources and amplification. But the idea that speakers can be entirley neutral and transparent and act as a window revealing whatever drives them is not matched by my experience.

Agreed, every speaker has a sound. Most who say the opposite are agenda driven

 

[Al M.]

Agreed, every speaker has a sound. Most who say the opposite are agenda driven

Of course, agreed. But on some speakers the self-sound is less intrusive to hearing differences in upstream electronics than it is on others. In that sense I find at least some Magico speakers to get more out of the way in terms of their own house sound, whatever that may be, and being more transparent to electronics than some other speakers.

 

[KeithR]

Of course, agreed. But on some speakers the self-sound is less intrusive to hearing differences in upstream electronics than it is on others. In that sense I find at least some Magico speakers to get more out of the way in terms of their own house sound, whatever that may be, and being more transparent to electronics than some other speakers.

that's fine- and I'd reply that every Magico I've heard sounds the same in certain areas, despite the electronics.

 

[PeterA]

that's fine- and I'd reply that every Magico I've heard sounds the same in certain areas, despite the electronics.

Keith, you have more experience than I do with different types of speakers. Can you describe what you mean by "sounds the same in certain areas"? And which models have you heard? I agree that in some areas the various models sound similar or the same, but in other areas, I find there are differences in actual "voicing".

Could you expand a bit on your comment?

 

[Alrainbow]

No, the volume level was the same before and after the effect I observed.

Ok ,

threw me off when you said you had it at a “moderate” level not loud and shrill as before ..

 

[morricab]

Ok ,

threw me off when you said you had it at a “moderate” level not loud and shrill as before ..

I said it was spatially flat and shrill on top...not that it was loud.

 

[caesar]

Magio is a company which elicits many emotions, that is for sure.

Yes, and it is a positive for them.

One could be like Avalon, Eggleston, Focal, Vanderstein, or Dynaudio these days - no one gives a hoot.

 

[caesar]

I would find it difficult to believe that anything happens by accident at Magico.

Maybe so. But they cannot control what happens outside of Magico. Brands are created and shaped by reviewers and on forums.

Magico has been lucky to get so much support from TAS reviewers. But they have failed to engage the fans on forums, such as this one. And it's been a huge failure.

 

[caesar]

This is the best forum on the planet for knowledgeable audiophiles (vs. so many other forums where people log on once in a while to congratulate each other on new gear, which they swap every 6 months or so. And where forum owners peddle their gear.). Big mistake by Wolf not to engage here. Wilson has (had?) Debbie Wilson here. And Wilson's Bill Pewges lurks here occasionally.

 

[caesar]

You seem to ignore what we, the people who own Magico products, are trying to say; the Magico will sound more like what's driving them, and less like what they might actually sound (assuming everything has a sound). You can go back and look at all measured data on Magico loudspeakers, they are all reasonably smooth and balanced both on and off-axis, with extreme low THD (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140).

It is not the house sound that is changing (it just gets better); it's the systems used to drive them (Ask Caesar who flipped 180° when heard the S5 on the CAT).

Most speakers suggested here as "role models" are so colored, their sound signature will triumph any ancillary equipment driving them. Therefore you have a similar "house sound" no matter what.

Hi Cannata,
Yes, true. I still passionately hate the Q series. But to their credit, they got things right with S class and on.

But the amps need to be right like CAT, Symphonic Line, Gryphon. I imagine Jadis can sound sublime also, but I think one needs the larger Jadis amps that can "make" bass.

And I still passionately hate Magico paired with the vast majority of SS. I Can't stand it with CH Circumcision (although CH sounds sublime with Rockport.) But Valin-Wolf love Magico - CH.

 

[PeterA]

Caesar, I agree that What's Best Forum is the best forum. Perhaps not the best for him (Wolf). I think he was contacted years ago and declined to participate, but I'm not sure. I suspect he is pretty busy. They build an awful lot of speakers.

 

[caesar]

You seem to ignore what we, the people who own Magico products, are trying to say; the Magico will sound more like what's driving them, and less like what they might actually sound (assuming everything has a sound). You can go back and look at all measured data on Magico loudspeakers, they are all reasonably smooth and balanced both on and off-axis, with extreme low THD (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140).

Hi Cannata,
For those of us that are not technical, can you please explain why being "reasonably smooth and balanced on and off-axis" is important. Isn't this a primarily solitary hobby, with our seat firmly planted in the sweet spot?

 

[caesar]

The critical need for precise placement of Magico speakers may also be a major reason why the chances of hearing good Magico sound at a show are quite low.

The magico marketeer usually sets them up, Peter ???. He knows what he is doing. It's the SS amps that kills it for them.

And that Berkeley Reference DAC is about as analytical as it gets.

(yes, I know that "worthless to the audio fans" Harley and the Computer Audiophile Geek think it's the best DAC in the world. But when normal people hear it, one wants to hang himslef from the chandelier.
Swing....Swing... Swing... Swing...)

Magico kind of shoot themselves in the foot at shows with dumb amp and DAC choices

 

[caesar]

I’ve owned a pair of Magico S1 MkIIs for roughly 18 months. Whenever you think you’ve pinned down a particular characteristic all it takes is a change of recording to utterly void the observation. In terms of house sound there really is none that I’ve identified and not had immediately contradicted, but there are house characteristics:

• Extremely transparent of the recording. Every recoding sounds unique and different
• Able to build a room filling soundstage that is as large or small as the acoustic on the recording
• Able to disappear completely, leaving only musicians playing in a cohesive acoustic space, independent of room size
• Able to produce highly believable instrument timbre including whisper quiet bass notes.
• Able to resolve even the most subtle spacial differences between instruments on a recording.
• Able to reproduce music that sounds like its being ‘made by the instruments’ rather than ‘coming from the instruments’. In other words it doesn’t sound like music made by a trombone....it sounds like a trombone making music.
• Chrystal clear with super extended treble that shimmers and sparkles and provides tremendous reality thanks to its tremendous energy, accurate timbral information and dynamic resolution
• Amazing dynamic speed, which revolves the beautiful shape of notes from the initial pinpoint percussive source, the bloom and expansion and the often directional decay.
• Amazing speed and rhythmic drive
• A warmth or dryness that reflects exactly what’s on the recording
• SoTA listener involvement and ability to engage and stimulate emotional response.

High end audio is a personal, subjective experience - it is not an absolute. Your bullet points can describe any piece of stereo equipment.

The famous self-loathing audiophile, Ethan Wiener, can use the same bullet points to describe a piece of mid-fi gear he found in garbage landfill, as long as it measures great.

John Wilson - Atkinson can use the same points to describe his beloved wilson alexia.

"Worthless to the Audio Fans" Harley and Computer Audiophile geek can use these bullets to describe their favorite DAC, the uber analytical Berkeley Reference DAC...

Preacher David Robinson can use the bullets (and some Benny Hinn gesticulations) to describe his beloved DSD...

Fremer can use it to describe whatever he is reviewing...


...

That's why comparisons are extremely important to tease out the relative differences between audio gear. To his credit, John Wilson - Atkinson got his Stereophile reviewers to compare gear, to help the readers and potential purchasers make sense of things.

Anyways, congrats on this great summary! If any of the non-comparing "audio journalists" can find this post, they can just use your bullets to write whatever they write about, and get 50-70% off their gear! Maybe you should collect a royalty for this.

 

[caesar]

True successes at shows are indeed hard to find. I am not interested in "good" sound, but rather something that can at least compete with my own system to some extent, and perhaps even better it, at least in some aspects. That is a true success in my book. Good luck with that at a show. In home settings among fellow audiophiles who know what they're doing, more easily found.

MBL has consistently put on GREAT shows in the US. They stay up all night to get things right. They don't open the door until everything is perfect. Get it right or don't do it. No excuses ever.

The MBL team is the best of the best.

 

[caesar]

You are trying to convince people whose idea of good sound is a flapping cardbox with a megaphone in the center. It does not matter how Magico performs or sounds; they just listen to what they are used to or like, and if they don't hear it, its bad.
Probably the most successful hi-end loudspeaker company of the 21st did not get there by having "disastrous" showing. If you like Magico (or willing to keep an open mind), you will find their showing decent to spectacular (M2/M6 in Munich). Like any precision tool, they will benefit from careful setup, but that's not going to change the minds who think that a 60 year old Tannoy is where sound reproduction progress stooped.

Yes, it's a subjective hobby. People imagine what they want to imagine and buy whatever luxury enhances their ego.

And it works both ways. At a recent Axpona, the local Magico dealer set up M6s in the open space in the hotel. You can imagine the ambient noise. It was so loud One couldn't hear the speaker!

Yet the TAS reviewer, Andrew Quint - Taffel or is Taffel - Quinn, gave it the best of show.! Yet, I saw the same mother fuyer in a room with the new swiss metallic speaker, driven by Einstein OTL, playing vinyl, and making gorgeous , transparent sound. The pathetic Mother Fukker ignored this awesome room while giving Magico in the hotel lobby best of show.

 

[caesar]

At least somewhat true and therefore I give the benefit of the doubt at least once...but multiple times in multiple systems suggests something systematic. I really take note when year after year there is disappointment. Mostly I am impressed with the few true successes I hear at shows...that perks my interest.

I heard disasters at dealers showrooms with this brand as well...from a dealer whom I had been impressed with in the past with his ability to get good sound. He switched from better sounding gear to better known gear to stay in business perhaps?

It takes an impressive marketing machine to overcome repeated bad show performance as that is how most get exposure to this kind of exotic gear.

If it weren't for TAS, with constant "best of show" reports and constant comparisons by Valin in his reference system for that top of mind awareness ...

 

[caesar]

Sorry, if you know a component well and what it can do, if it is sounding bad at a particular show due to improper set up, I expect you to tell me this is not representative. Not that wow, this is the best of the show. But you are right. Honesty can be unfriendly.

Listening for some positives has no relation to putting an unnecessary positive spin on the negatives

Intellectual honesty is very hard to find in this hobby. This hobby is a "war for one's ego" . And a "war for influence".

 

[caesar]

What is "plain awful" to you may be "decent" or even "spectacular" to others (and vice versa). All this subjective stuff is nothing but an ego war
Too bad objectivity is a bad word here.

Hi Cannata,

Can you please describe how Magico is Objectively better than their competition? Yes, like you, I am running out of the Wilson demo after a few minutes. But how is Magico "objectively" better than Wilson, or any other competitor?