IP theft is a way of life in China and is endorsed and practiced at the highest levels of their government. Why do you think our military and defense related contractors' networks are under daily siege? It sure cuts down on your R&D costs when you just steal the technology that has cost billions of dollars to develop. The Chinese will shamelessly counterfeit anything. They even have Counterfeit stores! As for Huawie, they have reached some steep opposition here from several sectors of the government who see it as another extension of the PLA despite having American faces as the spokesman for the company in the U.S.
Stereophile As We See It; High-End Audio & the Invisible Hand
- Thread starter Orb
- Start date
IP theft is a way of life in China and is endorsed and practiced at the highest levels of their government. Why do you think our military and defense related contractors' networks are under daily siege? It sure cuts down on your R&D costs when you just steal the technology that has cost billions of dollars to develop. The Chinese will shamelessly counterfeit anything. They even have Counterfeit stores! As for Huawie, they have reached some steep opposition here from several sectors of the government who see it as another extension of the PLA despite having American faces as the spokesman for the company in the U.S.
Orb
I had forgotten about this (dark) side of Huawei ... It remains however that with the amount and quality of engineers they produce, China and the rest of the world will catch up. The Internet is the great equalizer. We are really trending toward a flat earth to paraphrase Thomas Friedman.
@Tom
Not sure with the speed of communications throughout the world that such state of affair will last for hundred of years ... Globalization and all that ...
I had forgotten about this (dark) side of Huawei ... It remains however that with the amount and quality of engineers they produce, China and the rest of the world will catch up. The Internet is the great equalizer. We are really trending toward a flat earth to paraphrase Thomas Friedman.
@Tom
Not sure with the speed of communications throughout the world that such state of affair will last for hundred of years ... Globalization and all that ...
Disrespect for copyright can also be a cultural and traditional matter. The cult of the perfection of a copy is deeply rooted in some oriental cultures.
If you look at Buddhist temple figures you will see that very often they are many exact copies of one figure around - the pride of the craftsman was to make a figure that would be as perfect as the original and participate in a collective process in non distinguishable way. In occidental temples every craftsman would like to make his figure with some personal treats - all figures are different.
If you ask many Chinese people they will not feel guilty for making a perfect copy of a Rolex - they will feel pride for being able to make something that can not be distinguished from the original and consider the copy is an intrinsic homage to the creator of the original.
If you look at Buddhist temple figures you will see that very often they are many exact copies of one figure around - the pride of the craftsman was to make a figure that would be as perfect as the original and participate in a collective process in non distinguishable way. In occidental temples every craftsman would like to make his figure with some personal treats - all figures are different.
If you ask many Chinese people they will not feel guilty for making a perfect copy of a Rolex - they will feel pride for being able to make something that can not be distinguished from the original and consider the copy is an intrinsic homage to the creator of the original.
Imo, the Chinese copy things, at least in that last 20 years, that will make them make money. In most places where there are Chinese they always are associated generally with business, a profit oriented community - like in Chinatowns all over the world. But first of all, they've got to HAVE the skill to copy. I don't think it's easy to say that amongst other countries or groups of people around the world. Taiwan (which I believe is part of China), did fantastic copying jobs in the industrial world back in then, way before they were lording the computer hardware business. My father bought aluminum extrusion pressing machines in the 70's at 1/5 the price of an original branded one Made in the US. And the thing is, it works. The quality of course is not the same, but as Deng once said, it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white as long as it catches mice. And that is not to say the skill of the Chinese is centered on copying things. They constructed the Great Wall thousands of years ago which has never been copied in its great magnitude. I have seen a small piece of rice when seen through a huge magnifying glass shows a delicately carved Pagoda Temple and those were done thousands of years ago. They may have copied the Soviet-style Marxist/Leninist communist system but having seen its limitations, they even 'tweaked' it to allow a capitalist system of enterprise that even has a 'stock exchange'. It's all about the money, and we can see it in their 'surplus' and 'debt-buying' practices these days.
Disrespect for copyright can also be a cultural and traditional matter. The cult of the perfection of a copy is deeply rooted in some oriental cultures.
If you look at Buddhist temple figures you will see that very often they are many exact copies of one figure around - the pride of the craftsman was to make a figure that would be as perfect as the original and participate in a collective process in non distinguishable way. In occidental temples every craftsman would like to make his figure with some personal treats - all figures are different.
If you ask many Chinese people they will not feel guilty for making a perfect copy of a Rolex - they will feel pride for being able to make something that can not be distinguished from the original and consider the copy is an intrinsic homage to the creator of the original.
'Cept they spell Rolex, Rollex
I'd always like to think deep down into why China has the advantage of cheap labor, and hence can sell their goods cheaply. Coming from ragtag 'communes' upon the founding of the People's Republic, these workers have grown into efficient product churning 'machines'. Like how many shoes can they produce in an 8 hour shift vis-a-vis other countries. I have heard in the 80s from distant relatives of mine how the labor force inside China then was so lazy and were just counting the hours to get their daily measly wage form the government owned factories. Why would the workers then work fast and efficiently without any added 'perks', incentives, and bonuses? The turn-around, imo, was the experimental 'free enterprise zone' that started in the region of Shenzhen in the late 80s. With its success, there was no turning back and their economic performance became a miracle of sorts. But I think it's not just the measly wages and poor working conditions that contribute to this performance. I was told by an investor in China that China's government greatly supports those business specially when it comes to products that they can export; red tapes are cut for these businesses and they have the advantage too of not having much labor strikes or problems that plague other manufacturing countries. CBA? Unions? Technically, strikes are illegal in China. As for standard of living, I heard China continues to be cheap in terms of food as their natural resources are abundant. I was surprised to find how cheap a sealed ready-to-eat roast duck from China was when a friend brought it here to sell. The people can still live on cheap wages, but that is living inside China wherein the cost of living is also cheap. They have not 'exported' their labor force like other countries, but when the Chinese do move around other parts of the world, they are still the same old businessmen that they had been traditionally - and some of them are multi-millionaires, in a country that calls itself Communist.
I recently attended American Bar Associations Seminars regarding establishing civil and criminal justice systems. Most literally have no judges or prosecutors. This is one of the reasons it's so difficult to enforce intellectual property rights. They have no police force either. Its all done by the military. The military and the government is extremely corrupt.
Wouldn't it be presumptuous, not to mention an act of cultural imperialism to impose our legal standards on others?
Thanks Orb. It is difficult to write anything about how the economy affects the high-end audio market without being dismissed as either an extreme left-wing or an extreme right-wing zealot. But I think I got somewhere close to the correct balance in this piece. See also my earlier essay on a related subject: http://www.stereophile.com/content/upward-price-spiral where I quote Henry Ford.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
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Disparity of Income in America.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/income-inequality-is-at-a_n_259516.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/income-inequality-is-at-a_n_259516.html
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I think people are looking at one big point and missing the other two important ones in JA's fine editorial - the lack of dealers and the rise of the shows to replace them. The three are intrinsically linked - fewer stores means less visibility means manufacturers spending more money on shows means less money to pay for in-house manufacturing means outsourcing manufacturing means (cue scary chord) China. If we fixate on 'who makes it?' and ignore 'who sells it?' there may come a time when the answer to both is 'no-one'.
The move from store to show is as inevitable as it is dangerous, IMO. Manufacturers need places to demonstrate and ply their trade and if those places aren't stores, they end up being hotel rooms. Trouble is, these shows are often chronically under-marketed, usually under-funded and almost always under-attended. While specialist magazines and websites are the first port of call for promotion of these events (and yes, I have a vested interest in saying that), the key-word there is 'first'... as opposed to 'only'.
There are hugely successful shows, such as Munich's High End expo in May. But they are successful in part because the show organisers spend a fortune on media campaigns both inside and outside of the specialist press, including a lot of local poster advertising all around Munich and international promotion. In the process, Munich's events company has built the show into what is arguably the most important audio show in the West today. They spend a fortune, but make a slightly larger fortune from the exhibitors, and many grumble about the cost of attending... until they see that 13,000 people went through their room over the course of the expo, and they get column inches and blogged about the world over. The advertising works too - if you catch a cab in Munich during that period, at least one cabbie will ask "Ah... M.O.C. Is the 'heefee' good this year?" Contrast this with January this year, where even the people in the Flamingo didn't know T.H.E. Show was taking place, despite it taking place in the Flamingo.
The fewer the stores, the louder the shows have to shout. And right now, I think too many shows only whisper to the faithful.
The move from store to show is as inevitable as it is dangerous, IMO. Manufacturers need places to demonstrate and ply their trade and if those places aren't stores, they end up being hotel rooms. Trouble is, these shows are often chronically under-marketed, usually under-funded and almost always under-attended. While specialist magazines and websites are the first port of call for promotion of these events (and yes, I have a vested interest in saying that), the key-word there is 'first'... as opposed to 'only'.
There are hugely successful shows, such as Munich's High End expo in May. But they are successful in part because the show organisers spend a fortune on media campaigns both inside and outside of the specialist press, including a lot of local poster advertising all around Munich and international promotion. In the process, Munich's events company has built the show into what is arguably the most important audio show in the West today. They spend a fortune, but make a slightly larger fortune from the exhibitors, and many grumble about the cost of attending... until they see that 13,000 people went through their room over the course of the expo, and they get column inches and blogged about the world over. The advertising works too - if you catch a cab in Munich during that period, at least one cabbie will ask "Ah... M.O.C. Is the 'heefee' good this year?" Contrast this with January this year, where even the people in the Flamingo didn't know T.H.E. Show was taking place, despite it taking place in the Flamingo.
The fewer the stores, the louder the shows have to shout. And right now, I think too many shows only whisper to the faithful.
Then manufacturers need to be voting with their feet. A public trade show is not a gathering of the faithful to commiserate, it is a marketing vehicle. If the people running the shows are not marketing them, they're pretty useless. Are there any American shows that get good numbers?
Tim
Alan I wrote this letter the Sterophile years ago that was published. (Sorry I had not discovered Hi-Fi+ yetTimes have changed
Editor: The March issue's "As We See It" presented me with an irresistible opportunity to get on my soapbox. Over the years, Stereophile has been on both sides of this issue. When business is slow, consumers are chastised to not waste dealers' time or expect discounts. When business is booming, dealers are warned to not abuse their customers in search of short-term profits, for it is the long-term customers who will sustain their business over time.
Only two weeks ago, I was politely denied my request to audition the latest version of a popular speaker. My initial response was to simply stop going to the store. After being an audiophile for 20 years, I can get anything want from just about any source. But I decided to give the store the benefit of the doubt. I went back midweek in the daytime, so that any claim that they were too busy would not fly. A new salesman allowed me to listen to the speakers. I was not wowed by my initial listening session, but I decided the speaker had promise.
The owner was there—a guy I had known for almost 20 years. I purchased equipment from him out of his house. I watched him rise to be the larger dealer in my area. Anyway, on seeing me discussing the speaker with the salesman, he made some crack (and not for the first time) about how long it had been since I had made a purchase. I left the store unsure what I was going to do.
The fact of the matter is that times have changed. As much I would like them to be the same, they are never coming back. Audiophiles who were once the backbone of the audio business are frowned on, because we want to listen to all different kinds of components and borrow them for in-home evaluation. The store owner wants to make a quick sale with the minimum fuss and bother. Looking to maximize his profit margin, he much prefers the audiophile virgin who will accept his advice as gospel. It is no wonder, then, that consumers feel no loyalty and seek the lowest possible price.
I have the solution. Let the store owners charge a nominal fee for audiophiles to audition the equipment. This fee would be refundable on purchase of the item. No loyalty need be involved by either party. The consumer could then negotiate the best price and the owner could seek to maximize his profit.
Better yet, let's do away with dealers altogether. When I attended the Home Entertainment 2001 show in New York, I evaluated every hot product on the market, with no disapproving stares or impatient foot-tapping from rude salespeople. We could just have a series of hi-fi shows across the country, and if you wanted to buy something, you could get it off the Internet.—Reginald G. Addison, Forestville, MD, gregadd@msn.com
Editor: The March issue's "As We See It" presented me with an irresistible opportunity to get on my soapbox. Over the years, Stereophile has been on both sides of this issue. When business is slow, consumers are chastised to not waste dealers' time or expect discounts. When business is booming, dealers are warned to not abuse their customers in search of short-term profits, for it is the long-term customers who will sustain their business over time.
Only two weeks ago, I was politely denied my request to audition the latest version of a popular speaker. My initial response was to simply stop going to the store. After being an audiophile for 20 years, I can get anything want from just about any source. But I decided to give the store the benefit of the doubt. I went back midweek in the daytime, so that any claim that they were too busy would not fly. A new salesman allowed me to listen to the speakers. I was not wowed by my initial listening session, but I decided the speaker had promise.
The owner was there—a guy I had known for almost 20 years. I purchased equipment from him out of his house. I watched him rise to be the larger dealer in my area. Anyway, on seeing me discussing the speaker with the salesman, he made some crack (and not for the first time) about how long it had been since I had made a purchase. I left the store unsure what I was going to do.
The fact of the matter is that times have changed. As much I would like them to be the same, they are never coming back. Audiophiles who were once the backbone of the audio business are frowned on, because we want to listen to all different kinds of components and borrow them for in-home evaluation. The store owner wants to make a quick sale with the minimum fuss and bother. Looking to maximize his profit margin, he much prefers the audiophile virgin who will accept his advice as gospel. It is no wonder, then, that consumers feel no loyalty and seek the lowest possible price.
I have the solution. Let the store owners charge a nominal fee for audiophiles to audition the equipment. This fee would be refundable on purchase of the item. No loyalty need be involved by either party. The consumer could then negotiate the best price and the owner could seek to maximize his profit.
Better yet, let's do away with dealers altogether. When I attended the Home Entertainment 2001 show in New York, I evaluated every hot product on the market, with no disapproving stares or impatient foot-tapping from rude salespeople. We could just have a series of hi-fi shows across the country, and if you wanted to buy something, you could get it off the Internet.—Reginald G. Addison, Forestville, MD, gregadd@msn.com
I've thought about this idea myself, and it certainly appeals to me. But I'm no businessman, so I would be interested what other people thought of this ...
Frank
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