Balanced tonearm cable

analog2analog

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Mar 1, 2021
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Hi:

I am interested in making use of inherent balanced signal from the cartridge. Thus, I wish to DIY my own balanced tonearm cable with XLR connectors.

What have been your experience with Balanced tonearm cable? Does it reduces the hum/noise...etc over signal-ended connection? What kind of balanced tonearm cable are you using? On the tonearm side do you ground the shield to the tonearm tube or to the turntable or just leave it un-terminated to have a floating balanced connection?

Thanks
 

tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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Hi:

I am interested in making use of inherent balanced signal from the cartridge. Thus, I wish to DIY my own balanced tonearm cable with XLR connectors.

What have been your experience with Balanced tonearm cable? Does it reduces the hum/noise...etc over signal-ended connection? What kind of balanced tonearm cable are you using? On the tonearm side do you ground the shield to the tonearm tube or to the turntable or just leave it un-terminated to have a floating balanced connection?

Thanks

Send a PM to @Atmasphere - that's Ralph Karsten, an expert on this subject - he can explain the best way to build a balanced tone arm cable.

I used a balanced Silver Audio Silverbreeze 'arm cable on a SME V with a phonostage that had xlr inputs (Atma-Sphere MP-1). I had an identical single-ended version of the Silverbreeze for a CJ phonostage. So any comparison was not apples-to-apples. None of my cable runs were long. I had no hum in either situation.
 

analog2analog

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Mar 1, 2021
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Hi tima:

Thanks for the response. I don't have hum/buzz/noise problem either. I shouldn't have used these words in original post. I was trying to say that if balanced tonearm cables are more quieter than single-ended cables when it comes to background against which the music comes out. Or what else is beneficial?
 

tima

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I was trying to say that if balanced tonearm cables are more quieter than single-ended cables when it comes to background against which the music comes out. Or what else is beneficial?

A few questions: How is your tonearm terminated or are you coming directly off the cartridge pins? I assume your phonostage takes balanced input? How long do you need the phono cable to be?

Some electronics can accept an XLR connector though internally they are single-ended circuits. Is the rest of your system fully balanced, capable of balanced output - that is, all electronics have true balanced circuits?

The general view is that balanced is not inherently better than single-ended - that is, using a balanced tonearm cable is no guarantee to noise reduction. However there are situations where balanced cable can lower the noise floor, particulary when you have long cable runs susceptible to emi/rfi interference.

You can post your system in your signature.
 
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shakti

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may be this helps:
(copy & paste from the Phasemation URL)

unbalanced connection:

img02.jpg

balanced connection:

img01.jpg
 
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tima

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Nice diagrams @shakti.

Cartridge pins to XLR males:

White (L+) to pin 2
Blue (L-) to pin 3

Red (R+) to pin 2
Green (R-) to pin 3

TT ground/shield to pin 1 in both L and R XLR male.
 

microstrip

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Atmasphere

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I was trying to say that if balanced tonearm cables are more quieter than single-ended cables when it comes to background against which the music comes out. Or what else is beneficial?
If you've ever heard differences between audio cables (which is common in high end audio- most of the high end cable industry relies on this simple fact), its because the cables are inducing a coloration. This is the main reason for running a balanced line between the cartridge and phono preamp. If ever there was a place for a cable to get things right, its where the signal first meets the electronics! For the phono cable to work right it simply has to be constructed properly: a twisted pair within a shield, and otherwise low capacitance (no more than 25pf/foot). You will find that cost has nothing to do with it if the signal is received properly at the phono input:

Just to point that no center tap transformer is needed for balanced phono transformer operation. In fact, some manufacturers consider the use of the grounded center tap detrimental to sound quality.
@shakti , @microstrip is absolutely correct ! A transformer center tap is never used in a balanced connection (except by the incompetent) since it significantly degrades the Common Mode Rejection Ratio (CMRR)! The reason is that the center tap can never by placed exactly at the center of the winding no matter how skilled the transformer winding is done. If there is no center tap at all you simply don't have this problem. Its important to understand here than in a balanced connection, ground is ignored, which is to say its not used, isn't part of the signal in any way. In fact you can run a balanced connection with only a twisted pair and no ground connection at all- but having the shield to help reduce noise pickup is helpful because as high as you might be able to get the CMRR, it might not be high enough- hence a shield is used.
 
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analog2analog

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...Its important to understand here than in a balanced connection, ground is ignored, which is to say its not used, isn't part of the signal in any way. In fact you can run a balanced connection with only a twisted pair and no ground connection at all- but having the shield to help reduce noise pickup is helpful because as high as you might be able to get the CMRR, it might not be high enough- hence a shield is used.
But here is another mystery. Some just recommends "floating balanced connection" where there is no dedicated ground wire and shield is only terminated at phono preamplifier end and not terminated to tonearm tube as the signal from cartridge are inherently floating balanced signal.

Atmasphere, can you please post a diagram/photo of proper balance tonearm cable connections? There is lot of confusion around it. Many retail balanced tonearm cables have an attached external ground wire too? Why?
 

shakti

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I am not sure about the Fig 1 Balance connection as there is a redundant ground wire called GND Line . The shield is already serving as ground as it is terminated both at tonearm tube and at phono preamplifier end.
here you can see the original:


Phasemation might be able to explain their recommendation.

My current cables (from wireworld) are custom-made to meat their spec to my full sonic satisfaction, using the
T-1000 and T-2000 step up.

Just for info,
I found a similar drawing in the manual of my Boulder 2008 as recommended cable config specification for the Tonearmcable.
 

Atmasphere

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But here is another mystery. Some just recommends "floating balanced connection" where there is no dedicated ground wire and shield is only terminated at phono preamplifier end and not terminated to tonearm tube as the signal from cartridge are inherently floating balanced signal.

Atmasphere, can you please post a diagram/photo of proper balance tonearm cable connections? There is lot of confusion around it. Many retail balanced tonearm cables have an attached external ground wire too? Why?
They attach a ground wire because they don't understand what they are doing.

Does your arm have a DIN connection- or do you mean how is it connected from the cartridge?

At any rate, in a proper balanced connection the tonearm ground (pin 3 if you have a DIN connecter; otherwise the ground post) is the same as the interconnect shield and is pin 1 of both XLRs at the preamp end. Obviously the actual cartridge connections are pins 2 and 3 of the XLRs.
 

Solypsa

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Do you *always* connect shields to din pin 3? ( or do you ever leave them unterminated at the arm end?)
 

analog2analog

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They attach a ground wire because they don't understand what they are doing.

Does your arm have a DIN connection- or do you mean how is it connected from the cartridge?

At any rate, in a proper balanced connection the tonearm ground (pin 3 if you have a DIN connecter; otherwise the ground post) is the same as the interconnect shield and is pin 1 of both XLRs at the preamp end. Obviously the actual cartridge connections are pins 2 and 3 of the XLRs.
Thank you so much for the explanation. Mine is SME DIN.
 

BOONTOK

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I'm wondering if anyone can chime in some help on my situation. My turntable is across the room from my preamp, which is next to my receiver. I would like to wire up the turntable cartridge to twisted pair cable and run it up/over/down to the preamp, which is unbalanced. The cable run would be approximately 40 feet. I would think that I could hook up a balanced to unbalanced converter of sorts next to the preamp to achieve this.

I’ve tested a few different passive and active devices, but the best that I’ve gotten is a pretty noisy signal. This seems like it should be an easy possibility, as I’m just transporting the balanced signal to the preamp, which is still doing the work of amplifying the signal and applying RIAA EQ. Microphone signals are very low voltage, but can run hundreds of feet over twisted pair cable with little to no noise. Thanks for the help in advance!
 

K3RMIT

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Sep 4, 2020
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I'm wondering if anyone can chime in some help on my situation. My turntable is across the room from my preamp, which is next to my receiver. I would like to wire up the turntable cartridge to twisted pair cable and run it up/over/down to the preamp, which is unbalanced. The cable run would be approximately 40 feet. I would think that I could hook up a balanced to unbalanced converter of sorts next to the preamp to achieve this.

I’ve tested a few different passive and active devices, but the best that I’ve gotten is a pretty noisy signal. This seems like it should be an easy possibility, as I’m just transporting the balanced signal to the preamp, which is still doing the work of amplifying the signal and applying RIAA EQ. Microphone signals are very low voltage, but can run hundreds of feet over twisted pair cable with little to no noise. Thanks for the help in advance!
I don’t think a tt 40 feet is a good idea lol. where is the phono preamp ?
 

K3RMIT

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Sep 4, 2020
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If I use rca cables and a ground wire from table to phono preamp does it matter keeping in mind 3 feet is the max I would use from tt to phono pre ?
 

docvale

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Mar 21, 2011
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I'm wondering if anyone can chime in some help on my situation. My turntable is across the room from my preamp, which is next to my receiver. I would like to wire up the turntable cartridge to twisted pair cable and run it up/over/down to the preamp, which is unbalanced. The cable run would be approximately 40 feet. I would think that I could hook up a balanced to unbalanced converter of sorts next to the preamp to achieve this.

I’ve tested a few different passive and active devices, but the best that I’ve gotten is a pretty noisy signal. This seems like it should be an easy possibility, as I’m just transporting the balanced signal to the preamp, which is still doing the work of amplifying the signal and applying RIAA EQ. Microphone signals are very low voltage, but can run hundreds of feet over twisted pair cable with little to no noise. Thanks for the help in advance!
I would assume that if you have not moved the turntable close to your preamp, there must be some impediment, right? Otherwise that would be the easiest (and probably cheapest) solution.

When you say preamp, do you mean a full function preamp or a phonostage? Either way, you could bring that device only close to your turntable if doing the reverse were not allowed. Having the signal amplified to the line level or, even better, fully preamplified might allow a better rejection of noise, even if with RCA cables.

The devices that balance a signal exist, but they are working through transformers (which means that are not necessarily affordable). And, if I understood the scenario well, you'd need two (in between your unbalanced devices). If your cartridge is a MC and your tonearm is not a Rega, you might obtain a true balanced signal from your MC replacing your tonearm cable (using a DIN-XLR cable), entering a step up transformer with XLR inputs (Phasemation and Zesto make them) and then have the signal elevated to MM level while running on the long cables.
Not cheap and still imperfect, but better than your current layout.

If instead I failed to get the situation, could you please elaborate? :)
 
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