Phono stage upgrade from Xono

martin778

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Oct 2, 2014
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I'm looking for a definitive upgrade from my pass Xono (original one, with full size PSU) and as usual with this hobby - the more I read, the less I'm able to make a choice.
There is nothing wrong with the Xono but sometimes, it feels like it's a bit too hard in terms of treble, no matter the setup or cables used, I've noticed it every time when upgrading the cartridge, starting with the 103R, through AT33PTGII and now onto the VdH Frog Gold.

I will be buying used and so far these have caught my eve:
- Accuphase C-47 (Accuphase is always quality, just not sure how good they're with phono stages?)
- Pass XP25/27
- ARC Ref 2/3 Phono
- Whest (Titan Pro, REF V?)
- Destroy the wallet and go all out on a used Gryphon Legato Legacy

I'd much prefer not to use a separate SUT and considering I'm using headphones (Stax X9000) it must be as quiet as possible, no hum or any other noise. Some folks also seem to recommend the ASR Basis Exclusive but it I'm not sure about it, looks like 95% oversized PSU with a simple op-amp stage.
 
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tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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I owned an Xono for a couple years. In 2006 I compared it to an Audio Research PH-7 in a review for Soundstage. The Xono is not a bad phonostage but it is limited in resolution, psycho-acoustic qualities, and can be bit hard and analytic. I'll suggest consideration of either a Lamm LP2 or LP2.1, or an ARC Ref2se. These will be a considerable upgrade compared to the Xono.
 

Bonesy Jonesy

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Hi 'martin778',
I am also seriously considering updating my current Rega Aura (Rega's ref phono not the Aria) phono stage for my headphone system (Hifiman EF1000 with Susvara) for my hifi system in the UK and have been doing a lot of research with online review and forums reading.

Even though my Rega Aura sounds great (with my 'My Sonic Lab Eminent EX' cartridge - it either equals or trounces on my digital source), I hear some hum from the Aura with my EF1000 (when volume knob is around 50% - required for the Susvara to sound amazing) even though my EF1000 is dead silent when switching over to my Chord Blu (MK1 upgraded to MK2 with inbuilt M Scaler) & DAVE. I also hear quite a bit record surface noise on some records (even though they have been thoroughly cleaned twice with my Keith Monks Classic RCM).

Note that; Playing music with my EF1000 through my book shelf speakers (Focal Electra 1008 Be's) at normal listening levels (30% on the volume knob) I don't hear any phono stage hum nor record surface noise. I have to turn the volume knob up on my EF1000 to 80+% (with no music playing) to hear any phono stage hum which in practical terms would never happen as the music would be deafening !.

Therefore as well as the phono stage sounding amazing (and much better than my current Rega Aura) it must be ultra quiet / black background i.e. no hum and hopefully a reduction in background record surface noise when used with my Susvara headphones.

As my EF1000 is a hybrid design (i.e. it has a tube pre-amp section and SS power amp), it is slightly on the warm side of neutral (comparing with my Chord Choral SS system (Prima Pre-Amp & Mezzo 140 Power Amp which is neutral)) I am not currently considering a tube phono stage (this is me assuming that a tube phono will add additional warmth to the sound).

As my EX is a low impedance cartridge, I am been kindly informed by some WBF members and also read reviews and other forum threads, that a 'current / trans-impedance' phono stage is the way to go. As my EX has quite low internal impedance (1.0 Ohms), it will give a good gain value from such a phono stage. It also seems that such 'current / trans-impedance' phono stages are ultra quiet regarding hum etc.

Therefore I am currently looking at (and hoping to audition demo as many as possible - although this may be impossible in the UK for some of them unless there are WBF members in the UK that own one) the following phono stages (in no particular order);
- Channel D Lino C3.3 (made to order in the US - may be difficult to find one in the UK to demo and therefore buying blind)
- Channel D Seta L (ditto)
- Van Den Hul The Grail (hopefully can audition all three models i.e. the basic, SB & SE - can also do high input impedance & MM cartridges)
- Sutherland Little Loco (same as for the Channel D Phono Stages)
- Sutherland Loco (same as for the Channel D Phono Stages)
- BMC MCCI Signature ULN (MC current input only i.e. no MM facility or facilities to change settings etc.)
- CH Precision P1 (end game phono stage that can also do MC high impedance cartridges & MM or MC with SUT into MC/MM input cartridges)

The CH Precision P1 is currently way beyond my current finance plans. If I bought one ASAP, I would have to sell my Chord Choral UK system first (along with my Rega P10 & Aura which I am planning to sell my Rega gear anyway) in order to help finance it.
However this most probably be my last and end game phono stage as it can also do MC high impedance cartridges & MM or MC with SUT into MC/MM input cartridges - If I bought this I would also have to think about changing my other Chord Choral hifi components both for my systems in the UK and in my home in Spain and buy other CH Precision components further down the line so that by the time I retire at 70 (now 60 this December) I would have a full CH Precision hifi system in Spain).
 

DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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Moon lp 610 dead quiet no noise. a bit warmer tuned from neutral sounding. you can sit back and enjoy the music. adaptable to any pickup, whether mm or mc cartridge. my recommendation.
 

Bonesy Jonesy

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Moon lp 610 dead quiet no noise. a bit warmer tuned from neutral sounding. you can sit back and enjoy the music. adaptable to any pickup, whether mm or mc cartridge. my recommendation.
Hi Stephan,
I did have a look at the Simaudio Moon 810LP Phono Stage and adding the Moon 820S power supply unit at a later date.

But I was thinking that a dedicated trans-impedance / current input phono stage would give me better results with my current My Sonic Lab Eminent Ex cartridge ?
 

DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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Hi Stephan,
I did have a look at the Simaudio Moon 810LP Phono Stage and adding the Moon 820S power supply unit at a later date.

But I was thinking that a dedicated trans-impedance / current input phono stage would give me better results with my current My Sonic Lab Eminent Ex cartridge ?
you have a very low resistance cartridge. I can only say that the moon lp phono works very well with Sut. maybe an alternative way because very low-impedance pickups have always benefited from the sut in my experience. set Moon on 47kohm/ 40db gain and zero pf capacity with a 1:20 sut works well with old fr /spu / zyx low carts. if you compare it with the internal mc input you will find out how much better it is. at least that applies to my taste, but everyone hears differently

P.s i use the older lp 5.3 with modded linn dirak power supply and silvercore studio pro copper sut. great phono combination 20221003_123407.jpg
P.p.s the moon 810lp ist the flagship one of best phonoamp i ever heard equal tube or solid state. Buy it and enjoy it
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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Jan 3, 2017
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you have a very low resistance cartridge. I can only say that the moon lp phono works very well with Sut. maybe an alternative way because very low-impedance pickups have always benefited from the sut in my experience. set Moon on 47kohm/ 40db gain and zero pf capacity with a 1:20 sut works well with old fr /spu / zyx low carts. if you compare it with the internal mc input you will find out how much better it is. at least that applies to my taste, but everyone hears differently

P.s i use the older lp 5.3 with modded linn dirak power supply and silvercore studio pro copper sut. great phono combination View attachment 98593
P.p.s the moon 810lp ist the flagship one of best phonoamp i ever heard equal tube or solid state. Buy it and enjoy it
Thank you Stephan for your informative reply. Much appreciated.

Yes, as my current cartridge (My Sonic Lab Eminent Ex) is a low impedance and low output cartridge, I was thinking that a current input / trans-impedance phono stage (like I have listed in my post earlier) would give me better performance than a non trans-impedance phono stage like the Moon 610LP & 810LP and most other phono stages !

However going with your idea Stephan regarding a SUT, I also thought about buying a SUT i.e. a My Sonic Lab SUT to go with my Eminent Ex cartridge which will allow me to try many phono stages that have a high impedance MC / MM input. This would be interesting to see the performance of this arrangement against a trans-impedance phono stage ? Downside to this of course is the additional cost and complexity for a SUT and additional high quality cables !

The other thought I had was to sell my My Sonic Lab Eminent Ex for a higher impedance cartridge that goes well with my Kuzma 4Point 11" to allow me to look at many phono stages rather than restricting myself to just trans-impedance phono stages to get the best performance just because I have a low impedance cartridge !
 
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DasguteOhr

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My pleasure, I wouldn't sell a cart if I grew fond of it. I would take a low-capacitive cable<70pf maybe you have something like that at home. it doesn't cost as much as you think. sac thailand makes excellent suts type mc 220a or lundahl mc 1941 my tip.

Or lundahl 1941 ok you need housing because hum &noise

Back to moon lp I particularly like her reserved way of playing music. never aggressive. There are phonoamps that say from the first note "I'm here, make room" usually produce a super good resolution, but after a few weeks they just get on your nerves and you can't relax and enjoy the music anymore. the moon is completely different, it lets you enjoy it in peace. i don't get any money from moon audio for the promotion.
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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My pleasure, I wouldn't sell a cart if I grew fond of it. I would take a low-capacitive cable<70pf maybe you have something like that at home. it doesn't cost as much as you think. sac thailand makes excellent suts type mc 220a or lundahl mc 1941 my tip.

Or lundahl 1941 ok you need housing because hum &noise

Back to moon lp I particularly like her reserved way of playing music. never aggressive. There are phonoamps that say from the first note "I'm here, make room" usually produce a super good resolution, but after a few weeks they just get on your nerves and you can't relax and enjoy the music anymore. the moon is completely different, it lets you enjoy it in peace. i don't get any money from moon audio for the promotion.
Hi Stephan,
Well I have around 128 hours on my Eminent Ex. It is a very nice balanced cartridge. However apart from Rega's Apheta 2 & Apheta 3 (still have with my P10) cartridges, and past Dynavector lower end cartridges, the Eminent Ex is the only cartridge of this monetary value I have heard. Therefore I don't know how good it is compared to mire expensive ones including My Sonic Labs own premium cartridges.

The Moon LP (810LP) sounds interesting. I may include it with my auditioning to see how it compares with the my listing of the trans-impedance phono stages.
 

DasguteOhr

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Hi Stephan,
Well I have around 128 hours on my Eminent Ex. It is a very nice balanced cartridge. However apart from Rega's Apheta 2 & Apheta 3 (still have with my P10) cartridges, and past Dynavector lower end cartridges, the Eminent Ex is the only cartridge of this monetary value I have heard. Therefore I don't know how good it is compared to mire expensive ones including My Sonic Labs own premium cartridges.

The Moon LP (810LP) sounds interesting. I may include it with my auditioning to see how it compares with the my listing of the trans-impedance phono stages.
i know written reviews by audio gear are often not 100% true, but this one hits the nail on the head. if i was good with words i would write it the same way. i love dynavector carts they have such a beautiful basic tone that gives voices a powerful way as if a real person were there and would be singing. i have dv20xmk2,and xv 1s here at home fantastic carts worth every penny.
exsample greg brown poet game lp goosebumbs
P.S 128 hours is still like a virgin have fun with it:p
 
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mtemur

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I recommend using a high quality SUT with a very low impedance and very high quality cartridge like MSL instead of active gain stage for mc. Trans-impedance phono stages might be another good option but my ears like SUT+Tube MM stage more. For example I compared a CH Precision P1 with additional power supply X1 against a Kondo Sfz and M7 phono. Although I like CH P1 a lot as a phono stage but there was no competition against a simple Kondo setup. Another time I compared another CH P1, X1 combo against Kondo Sfz and M7 heritage. This time the difference was even bigger because of better MM phono stage found in M7 heritage preamp. Cartridges were top ZYX and Kondo. SUT +MM phono combo was more lifelike, warm and dynamic.

I never came across anything quieter than a good SUT. It’s quiet because it’s passive. But a low quality SUT can be a real pain. I recommend trying both options.
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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I recommend using a high quality SUT with a very low impedance and very high quality cartridge like MSL instead of active gain stage for mc. Trans-impedance phono stages might be another good option but my ears likes SUT+Tube MM stage more. For example I compared a CH Precision P1 with additional power supply X1 against a Kondo Sfz and M7 phono. Although I like CH P1 a lot as a phono stage but there was no competition against a simple Kondo setup. Another time I compared another CH P1, X1 combo against Kondo Sfz and M7 heritage. This time the difference was even bigger because of better MM phono stage found in M7 heritage preamp. Cartridges were top ZYX and Kondo. SUT +MM phono combo was more lifelike, warm and dynamic.

I never come across anything quieter than a good SUT. It’s quiet because it’s passive. But a low quality SUT can be a real pain. I recommend trying both options.
Thank you 'mtemur' for your post and excellent information and experiences. Much appreciated.
It looks like I should also need to explore down the SUT path and MM Phono Stage as well.
 
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martin778

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Oct 2, 2014
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Thank you all for the comprehensive replies, lots of good options mentioned. The Moon looks interesting but 'warm' voiced isn't my cup of tea, I'd say if the Xono sounded less hard on the treble when combined with a very resolving headphone, I would've been perfectly happy with it as the bass is to die for and it's dead quiet.

I've heard more people preferring SUT's with MM stages for MC but for the sake of convenience, I'd prefer an integrated phono stage.
 

Nemal1

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I’d recommend the Esoteric E-02 which also has balanced inputs and outputs and sounds really good with my Koetsu Wajima.
 

jackelsson

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A couple of years back I went from Xono to XP-15 to XP-25. Each step was a step up in resulution but also in naturalness and musicality. The XP-25 is in a different league compared to the already very good Xono. And there's certainly no hardness in the treble anymore. All Pass phonostages are dead quiet.
 
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Solypsa

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As far as quiet phono goes I would look at the CS Port ( battery power ) and maybe the RADA for surprising tube options. An old skool solid state to look for ( used ) might be the Klyne system 7....
 

jackelsson

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The Klyne is a very good sounding phono stage. I remember it fondly from a couple of years back when an audio buddy visited me bringing one along. But I seem to remember that the sealed "Audio Modules" didn't last forever - and since they are sealed they cannot be repaired, only exchanged.

Same fate as e.g. with the Omtec Antares phono stage which was highly regarded in the 90s over here in Germany, but which is basically unrepairable today. And Omtec is long out of business. Is Klyne still in business?
 
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XV-1

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a used Accuphase C-37 is very good balanced sounding phono with build quality to die for. It replaced and is better sounding than the Pass XP-25 and Esoteric E-03 I used to own.
 
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DasguteOhr

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The Klyne is a very good sounding phono stage. I remember it fondly from a couple of years back when an audio buddy visited me bringing one along. But I seem to remember that the sealed "Audio Modules" didn't last forever - and since they are sealed they cannot be repaired, only exchanged.

Same fate as e.g. with the Omtec Antares phono stage which was highly regarded in the 90s over here in Germany, but which is basically unrepairable today. And Omtec is long out of business. Is Klyne still in business?
Klyne 6 is far better then a xono, rare on the used market out of buisness. Such a pity.
 

Solypsa

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Klyne 6 is far better then a xono, rare on the used market out of buisness. Such a pity.
I can't say what the situation is in 2022, however Stan Klyne was handling repairs after he retired for some time...
 

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