Breaking in gear. Does one really notice/remember a change?

[bryans]

OK I know this might start a firestorm but hopefully it will not.

I have been in the crazy hobby more years than I want to count. The one thing over the years that seem to be constant is the good old "gear needs to be broken in to sound it's best". Now I'm a believer that gear sounds better/different when warmed up. But when I hear people say something needs hundreds of hours to break in I'm not sure about that. I tend to think what happens is people get used to the sound after so many hours and it is "broken in" at that point. Or a better question is at what point does one believe the gear is broken in? Say a dealer says the new DAC you bought needs 300 hours to break in. So at what point in the 300 hour process does it happen? Heck how does one even remember what the DAC sounded like 100 or 200 hours into the break in process? Maybe my brain is just too old these days to remember specifically what something sounded like after hundreds of hours of listening.

 

[henrich3]

I've read articles on the subject that focused on speaker or cable break-in, and the data indicated that any speaker performance differences after the first few minutes of use were insignificant. Measureable changes on cables due to break-in were basically non-existent. I wouldn't expect any significant measurable changes due to break-in for solid state electronics. Break-in on tube based equipment may be another story however.

My impression is that audiophiles tend to believe in the benefits of breaking in audio gear, even cables and solid state electronics, but I just haven't seen any credible measurement-based data that would justify those beliefs. IMO audiophiles would be better off focusing on things that make real & dramatic improvements to sound quality like room acoustics and room EQ solutions, rather than break-in effects.

 

[Gregadd]

The good news is equipment will be warmed up and broken in whether yu beleive in it or not. If you use it it will happen.

 

[jwhite613]

The one and only time was breaking in a cartridge both the wife and I looked up and asked what just happened, the sound changed dramatically and yes for the better. This is the only time we noticed a very audible difference in a moment in time.

 

[PYP]

The one and only time was breaking in a cartridge both the wife and I looked up and asked what just happened, the sound changed dramatically and yes for the better. This is the only time we noticed a very audible difference in a moment in time.

call it settling in or breaking in, but I've experienced this "what just happened" many times with gear/cables. That is the truly fun part.

Many, many years ago, I tried my first "audiophile" power cord on an amplifier. I made sure I could return it because I was nearly certain that a power cord couldn't make a difference, but wanted to test my theory. After a day or so, I was listening to Céu's eponymous album. Previous to the new power cord, I had asked my wife if Céu could even sing. I just didn't get her (I mostly listen to Jazz). Suddenly, the album just "opened up" and I could hear the artistry. Literally did a double take and enjoyed the entire album. Just one of many examples.

 

[Holmz]

OK I know this might start a firestorm but hopefully it will not.

I have been in the crazy hobby more years than I want to count. The one thing over the years that seem to be constant is the good old "gear needs to be broken in to sound it's best". Now I'm a believer that gear sounds better/different when warmed up. But when I hear people say something needs hundreds of hours to break in I'm not sure about that. I tend to think what happens is people get used to the sound after so many hours and it is "broken in" at that point. Or a better question is at what point does one believe the gear is broken in? Say a dealer says the new DAC you bought needs 300 hours to break in. So at what point in the 300 hour process does it happen? Heck how does one even remember what the DAC sounded like 100 or 200 hours into the break in process? Maybe my brain is just too old these days to remember specifically what something sounded like after hundreds of hours of listening.

It should PDG right away. It will not go anywhere good, if it starts from dire sounding.

 

[Gregadd]

It should PDG right away. It will not go anywhere good, if it starts from dire sounding.

Yes, it may. it has been my experience that it should break in during a reasonable evaluation period. Leave it on and run through your normal playlist. Must new dealers have a 30-day return. Find out before you buy. In any event you should have a pretty good idea how it sounds before you buy it. That is why you chose it, right. You should give it an opportunity to sound that way. If it does not within a reasonable time. Return it,
My 2 cents worth.

 

[rDin]

Should be easy to answer this once and for all - get two units - one brand new and one well broken in - then blind test?

 

[bryans]

Should be easy to answer this once and for all - get two units - one brand new and one well broken in - then blind test?

That would be the best way to test. Not sure how many people can pull this off though.

 

[Gregadd]

Maybe some genius out there could figure it. How would you conduct a blind test without burning in the new uni?. Remember use is burn in.

 

[rDin]

Yes, but with burn-in figures often quoted in the hundreds of hours there would seem to be some window for testing.

 

[Gregadd]

I confess to being suspect of high burn in hour claims. But as I always say dint fight the hypothetical less you come up with the right answerer to the wrong. question.
Correct me if Iam wrong but the op appear to coed break in and warn up. His issue is with extended break in. So that would make the new amp a variable. Not ideal for a scientific test.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bryan, the only thing that literally needed 100+ hours of break in was my Straingauge stylus in 2018. Albums sounded out of sorts up until 120 had been played, then the rest were plain sailing.
My current amps mods have taken a fortnight to fully open up.
Everything else registers a reaction within 48 hours max, some things on the spot.
When I hear guys commenting on 1500-2000 hours needed to burn in, I can only think they've discovered the elixir for eternal life, because they'll need it.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Bryan, the only thing that literally needed 100+ hours of break in was my Straingauge stylus in 2018. Albums sounded out of sorts up until 120 had been played, then the rest were plain sailing.
My current amps mods have taken a fortnight to fully open up.
Everything else registers a reaction within 48 hours max, some things on the spot.
When I hear guys commenting on 1500-2000 hours needed to burn in, I can only think they've discovered the elixir for eternal life, because they'll need it.

I tend to agree about the time. Some speakers can be an outlier, but generally, my experience is the same.

 

[Tuckers]

I am one who experiences break in changes in audio. I hear it in nearly everything, with speakers and digital gear being the most dramatic. Some linear power supplies sound good after 24 hours, digital gear and solid state generally starts to hear good after 200, but some take up to 500 to come into their own. I've heard dacs continue to change and improve up to 1,000 hours, though these are generally minor changes. For me a lot of this gear can be unlistenable until it breaks in.

I took a break from audio of about 15 years, and when I came back into it I thought it was an opportunity not to be so 'nutty' or picky about things like break in. Only to find as I started building and upgrading system with better gear, I heard the same issues with break in, isolation, power filtration, EMI etc. It kind of validated my previous experience, unfortunately. I don't want to be That guy, but deficits of these previously mentioned things really make things unlistenable for me.

I've often wondered why this is the case it affects some people and not others. I suspect that some people are more sensitive to some sorts of distortion than others. For me the type that come from lack of break in etc, really impact me viscerally, setting my teeth on edge as it were. I've also surmised that these distortions may be in the time domain more than anything. I think is a major reason I am an audiophile, to protect my psyche from these distortions, while still enjoying music.

 

[PYP]

I am one who experiences break in changes in audio. I hear it in nearly everything, with speakers and digital gear being the most dramatic. Some linear power supplies sound good after 24 hours, digital gear and solid state generally starts to hear good after 200, but some take up to 500 to come into their own. I've heard dacs continue to change and improve up to 1,000 hours, though this is a much smaller difference. For me a lot of this gear can be unlistenable until it breaks in. I've often wondered why this is the case.

I took a break from audio of about 15 years, and when I came back into it I thought it was an opportunity not to be so 'nutty' or picky about things like break in. Only to find as I started building and upgrading system with better gear, I heard the same issues with break in, isolation, power filtration, EMI etc. It kind of validated my previous experience, unfortunately. I don't want to be That guy, but deficits of these previously mentioned things really make things unlistenable for me.

I find break in tiresome, but I'm mostly able to listen during the process (there have been times during the good/bad sound cycle when the volume needed to be very, very low). Not being facetious: one answer can be buying used. Let someone else do the work.

 

[Tuckers]

Not being facetious: one answer can be buying used. Let someone else do the work.

I actually Prefer used for this reason!

 

[Lee]

I have heard improvements from 100+ hours on my cartridge, DAC, tube pre, tube amp, and speakers.

 

[GSOphile]

How long it takes a piece to break in will depend a lot on some key components, not just the type but the brand and spec. For example, I read where high quality Mundorf capacitors take considerably longer than most to break in.

 

[Sampajanna]

For me, the separation of “what is happening” objectively (in the gear) versus subjectively (in my brain) only matters mildly, and only as supplemental information that helps me make a purchase. For me this is analogous to ordering food: the health aspect and dietary science play a mild role, of course since I want to be healthy, but flavor and taste will impact not only what I order but how much I enjoy the food. In other words, even if it is the brain getting adjusted to the stereo over time and nothing is really happening in the gear, I don’t care—the process is still happening. It is my stereo, so what is happening to me is more important than what is happening out there. I am open minded about measurements, but I don’t agree that HIfi is a “science.” It is far too subjective to be just that. And more than just the ears are involved—our eyes and our brains are as well, including our memories and biases. If you ignore all that, you may end up with something that measures perfect but does not engage your emotions or spirit and does not draw you back to the listening room over and over again. In short, I experience burn in—absolutely. It is very real to me. I experience it with cables, boxes and most clearly with tubes… The KT 170 power tubes were that for me—harsh at first and then opened and balanced more and more every day. I have even experienced this with isolation tweaks…. I am open to stepping back and analyzing this from an objective perspective and even to recognize the very real possibility that these changes are all in my mind, but then even when I admit that, I just want to respond with: so what? And then put on the song by that same name and bliss out….