Visit to Todd (sbnx) Avantgarde Trio G3 in Parker, Texas

[DasguteOhr]

did you try Duelund Cast cu?

Yes Dueland is a very musical cap but not the dynamic like Mundorf SGO or the soundstage and timbres like a true copper max. in the end it's your personal taste or what you're missing in the speaker concept that counts. it's fine tuning , you can certainly listen with this three caps at the highest level.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

in my VERY neutral and ultradynamic horn system I lean on musical......especially above 600Hz
waiting for a custom made platinum bypass cap to listen to across the 22µF series DuelUnd ....supposed to add in that department

 

[DasguteOhr]

in my VERY neutral and ultradynamic horn system I lean on musical......especially above 600Hz
waiting for a custom made platinum bypass cap to listen to across the 22µF series DuelUnd ....supposed to add in that department

I would like to try Richard Jahre gold glimmer caps. They are supposed to sound great but my budget is too small.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Is that the price or cap rating ..?

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I would like to try Richard Jahre gold glimmer caps. They are supposed to sound great but my budget is too small.View attachment 128487

what do they cost then?

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would like to try Richard Jahre gold glimmer caps. They are supposed to sound great but my budget is too small.View attachment 128487

Audiophiles love shiny boxes i m. Sure it ll be a succes

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

yes even shiny box speakers!

 

[andromedaaudio]

yes even shiny box speakers!

Off course High gloss laquer .

According to ked mine sound horrible so i need to rely on looks lol

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

everybody are free to choose their own "coffin"

 

[DasguteOhr]

what do they cost then?

I know only the price for normal version of RJ glimmer 2.0 uf ~ 2500€ Cessaro use it in the xover for tweeter horndriver.
After that I didn't dare ask about the price of the gold version. Richard Jahre has been building the best capacitors in the world for 60 years.
Works at extreme temperatures, almost no manufacturing tolerance, barely measurable loss angle.

 

[Lagonda]

I know only the price for normal version of RJ glimmer 2.0 uf ~ 2500€ Cessaro use it in the xover for tweeter horndriver.
After that I didn't dare ask about the price of the gold version. Richard Jahre has been building the best capacitors in the world for 60 years.
Works at extreme temperatures, almost no manufacturing tolerance, barely measurable loss angle.

You diy guys might not fall for the highly exaggerated prices of speaker makers, but they get you anyway when you buy the gold and silver bling for your crossovers !

 

[DasguteOhr]

You diy guys might not fall for the highly exaggerated prices of speaker makers, but they get you anyway when you buy the gold and silver bling for your crossovers !

I would never buy the Jahre Glimmer at the new price ,sometimes used ones appear on eBay. The motto is: lie in wait and then snap up.
I rather dismantle old Techtronix measuring devices and use this cap as a bypass cap.

 

[remdeck]

Mezzo XD vs Duo GT

I'm looking to replace my Uno 2004 with a Mezzo XD or a Duo GT.
I've heard the Mezzo XD two months ago at a private place. It was some of the best sounding systems I have heard.
I heard the Duo SD last month at a show and was very impressed with the naturalness of the G3 series.
What I like to know is if the Duo G3 is preferable to the Mezzo XD, especially when listening for space information, reverbs, room boundaries.
I love the sound of my Uno, listened to Duo Omega Grosso, which is much better. What I always found,that the Avantgarde didn't display reverb sounds very well, even if the 3D was great.
Roy Gregory is very positive in his review about the Duo GT, but explains the reverbs are not really audible.
As I listened to the Mezzo XD, I was very impressed by the sound of reverbs and room boundaries.
I think the G3 series is much better in mid-high, but I could live with the XD series.
Anyone here who has experience in this theme?
Looking in €30k range used, living in Germany. Mezzo XD cheaper, Duo GT a bit more than that.

Regards, Remco

 

[Hear Here]

The Duo GT comes in 2 versions - Hybrid and fully-active. The latter has the iTron amp system built in, so no separate power amp is required. The hybrid is similar in design to your exising Uno and the Mezzo XD, apart from bigger and better drivers, DSP, etc.

I started my Avantgarde adventure with new Unos in 2002 (with SUB225s) and upgraded to used 2006-vintage Duos and more recently to the Duo XD. Unfortunately, living in the UK, it seems impossible to audition any of the G3 speakers. My next upgrade is likely to be the iTron Duo GT.

When I first read Roy Gregory's initial "review" (more a preview in fact), he disparaged earlier Duos by saying they had poor bass to mid/top integration. He repeats this in his more thorough review of the Duo GT - that I haven't yet read in full! On another high-end forum, I responded to his preview / review with this as my first paragraph:

"When Gregory describes in unflattering terms "previous generation Duos", he seems to be talking about ones built long ago that have separate mid and top horn enclosures, in fact probably pre-Omega. For the last 2 versions, the Duo has the top driver built into the main enclosure and the latest XD version has DSP to allow room correction for the bass. He claims that these earlier versions lack integration between the bass and the horn section. I think he's well out of touch because every other reviewer seems to think that problem was long since fixed by Avantgarde. The XD version has incredibly versatile settings to allow a seamless transfer, even by offering numerous different crossover technologies (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley) and comprehensive frequency response adjustment possibilities."

The Duo XD is a great speaker and I find little to criticise apart from the rather too complex XD software. Looking at the GT manual, it appears that the new DSP has been much simplified compared with XD - no bad thing. I would consider an upgrade to the Duo GT, but not to the Mezzo XD (too similar to what I already have), or the Mezzo GT that seems disproportionally more costly.

 

[nirodha]

The Duo GT comes in 2 versions - Hybrid and fully-active. The latter has the iTron amp system built in, so no separate power amp is required. The hybrid is similar in design to your exising Uno and the Mezzo XD, apart from bigger and better drivers, DSP, etc.

I started my Avantgarde adventure with new Unos in 2002 (with SUB225s) and upgraded to used 2006-vintage Duos and more recently to the Duo XD. Unfortunately, living in the UK, it seems impossible to audition any of the G3 speakers. My next upgrade is likely to be the iTron Duo GT.

When I first read Roy Gregory's initial "review" (more a preview in fact), he disparaged earlier Duos by saying they had poor bass to mid/top integration. He repeats this in his more thorough review of the Duo GT - that I haven't yet read in full! On another high-end forum, I responded to his preview / review with this as my first paragraph:

"When Gregory describes in unflattering terms "previous generation Duos", he seems to be talking about ones built long ago that have separate mid and top horn enclosures, in fact probably pre-Omega. For the last 2 versions, the Duo has the top driver built into the main enclosure and the latest XD version has DSP to allow room correction for the bass. He claims that these earlier versions lack integration between the bass and the horn section. I think he's well out of touch because every other reviewer seems to think that problem was long since fixed by Avantgarde. The XD version has incredibly versatile settings to allow a seamless transfer, even by offering numerous different crossover technologies (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley) and comprehensive frequency response adjustment possibilities."

The Duo XD is a great speaker and I find little to criticise apart from the rather too complex XD software. Looking at the GT manual, it appears that the new DSP has been much simplified compared with XD - no bad thing. I would consider an upgrade to the Duo GT, but not to the Mezzo XD (too similar to what I already have), or the Mezzo GT that seems disproportionally more costly.

Clear assessment . Apart from the final sentence: the Mezzo G3 is really proportionally more costly. It clearly beats the Duo GT (which was my choice until I heard the new Mezzo) in every way. Enjoy your quest and decision making !

 

[sbnx]

Mezzo XD vs Duo GT

I'm looking to replace my Uno 2004 with a Mezzo XD or a Duo GT.
I've heard the Mezzo XD two months ago at a private place. It was some of the best sounding systems I have heard.
I heard the Duo SD last month at a show and was very impressed with the naturalness of the G3 series.
What I like to know is if the Duo G3 is preferable to the Mezzo XD, especially when listening for space information, reverbs, room boundaries.
I love the sound of my Uno, listened to Duo Omega Grosso, which is much better. What I always found,that the Avantgarde didn't display reverb sounds very well, even if the 3D was great.
Roy Gregory is very positive in his review about the Duo GT, but explains the reverbs are not really audible.
As I listened to the Mezzo XD, I was very impressed by the sound of reverbs and room boundaries.
I think the G3 series is much better in mid-high, but I could live with the XD series.
Anyone here who has experience in this theme?
Looking in €30k range used, living in Germany. Mezzo XD cheaper, Duo GT a bit more than that.

Regards, Remco

Hello,

I can't really comment on comparing the XD series to the new G3 series. I had heard the G2/XD speakers at shows and heard some good things but also some things that I didn't like. For me horn speakers came of age with the G3. I don't hear anyone saying they prefer the older generation speaker to the new G3.

The G3 Mezzo is a better speaker than the DuoGT. The bass integration is largely responsible for this. The cabinet makes the bass 6dB more efficient which means the amp works 1/4 as hard for the same output. The bass is also partially horn loaded with the side flares. This extends the horn loading to just below 100Hz. This really smooths the transition between the fully horn midrange and the bass reflex cabinet. The movable tweeter in the Mezzo is also a great "feature". It allows easy integration with the midrange and by moving the tweeter the owner can drastically change the way the music is presented.

 

[remdeck]

Thx guys for all your input!

I'm in the Avantgarde techsystem very deeply. I rebuild my Uno sub 225 to XD, which was a very big improvement. Beginning of this year I rebuild my XD to DSPs from Four Audio (I killed one AllDSP by trying to update and no one would help me)
The Four Audio DSP is much better than the AllDSP used in the XD and G3, but even more complicated.

Let me question differently:
When comparing the Duo G3 to Mezzo G3, can you hear the phenomenon I described? Can you hear difference in reverbs and room information better with the Mezzo G3?
As written, I found the Mezzo XD so much better than the Duo XD, but it was especially in the transition between Sub and Mid Horn and the Mezzo XD sounded very much better overall.
But I didn't focus on the reverb thematic at that time (2019)
The Mezzo G3 is completely out of my $ range!

I'm an Audio engineer, do sound for my living, but this reverb, room information thing, I really don't understand. 3D is very good, depth and height are there, but the exact sound of reverbs, delays, reflections are difficult to perceive...

Regarding G3 series: Todd, you're right, these are much better than the previous series. Very homogeneous, which the older series missed completely.
But I could live with the XD series...

Regards, Remco

 

[Hear Here]

Thx guys for all your input!

I'm in the Avantgarde techsystem very deeply. I rebuild my Uno sub 225 to XD, which was a very big improvement. Beginning of this year I rebuild my XD to DSPs from Four Audio (I killed one AllDSP by trying to update and no one would help me)
The Four Audio DSP is much better than the AllDSP used in the XD and G3, but even more complicated.

Let me question differently:
When comparing the Duo G3 to Mezzo G3, can you hear the phenomenon I described? Can you hear difference in reverbs and room information better with the Mezzo G3?
As written, I found the Mezzo XD so much better than the Duo XD, but it was especially in the transition between Sub and Mid Horn and the Mezzo XD sounded very much better overall.
But I didn't focus on the reverb thematic at that time (2019)
The Mezzo G3 is completely out of my $ range!

I'm an Audio engineer, do sound for my living, but this reverb, room information thing, I really don't understand. 3D is very good, depth and height are there, but the exact sound of reverbs, delays, reflections are difficult to perceive...

Regarding G3 series: Todd, you're right, these are much better than the previous series. Very homogeneous, which the older series missed completely.
But I could live with the XD series...

Regards, Remco

I'm intrigued when you say "I rebuild my Uno sub 225 to XD, which was a very big improvement."

Since the 225 (as you have with your old Unos) has twin 10" drivers in a squat but deep enclosure (with mid and top horns hovering above) and the XD hastwin 12" drivers in a much taller, wider, but less deep enclosure, your claim needs a bit more explanation! How have you rebuilt your old Uno bass enclosures as XDs?

The mods I've made to my older Duos and the current XDs are aimed to slim down the speakers' appearance so they look better and block less of the views from my listening room. I would never modify the basic design, as this effectively says that AG didn't know what they were doing when they first designed the Uno! The fact that this early Uno was chosen by Stereophile as their Speaker of the Year means AG didn't get much wrong.

Photos show my slimmed down Duos and Duo XDs, the latter done with dimensions and sketch supplied by Avantgarde and (possibly) influencing their structural design for the GT.

 

[remdeck]

We've communicated some time ago and here is what I build:
Uno sub to XD

There you see what I had done. The Uno XD has 10' bass drivers. The Duo XD got the better 12'.
Your modifications on your Avantgardes is very cool.

 

[Hear Here]

We've communicated some time ago and here is what I build:
Uno Sub

There you see what I had done. The Uno XD has 10' bass drivers. The Duo XD got the better 12'.
Your modifications on your Avantgardes is very cool.

Please try again - that link doesn't work!