Visit to Todd (sbnx) Avantgarde Trio G3 in Parker, Texas
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
I guess you don’t realize how fleeting aural memory is.
I use videos like you to get a window view in , when there is no otherway to hear a particular setup , its never an absolute conclusive due to the many errors involved, its mostly to compare changes to that actual system not to compare to others being recorded in a totally different environment , phone mic , non standard recording distance , different SPL, outdated software et al ...
There’s too many variables even worse than our current top Tier reviewer comparing components without reference Volume matching ..!
Regards
No one has ever claimed that videos are representative in absolute terms.
I made a simple request for a video, either it will be produced or it will not.
As many have mentioned, if you want to argue about the merits of videos or how to utilize them, then let’s head over to the other thread, although much of what needs to be said, I have already stated there for yours and anyone else’s reference.
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I did answer your question , maybe you need to define context as to what you seek ..!
Here it is again, what is a better tool for comparative analysis of different audio systems than system videos?
Weird isn't it - as far as I know, no brand ever uses video on their websites to demonstrate the quality of sound their equipment produces (despite their access to professional recording equipment, microphones, etc), yet there are people here who truly think their grotty mobile phones can record the quality of a high end system so that others here can listen to it and believe they can hear truly wonderful music and can judge the quality of a 100K + system!
Pull the other one!
Pull the other one!
Let me try again , my first response may have been too fast ..
In order to use videos to do absolute compares you gotta standardized your testing ,
Same mic ,same mic distance from loudspeakers , same recordings SPL , same playback software ..!
You also gotta make sure the systems are not clipping .
If not then its all Bovine entertainment..!
The correct way is in person AB demo sighted and unsighted using the same Parameters ..
Regards
Let me try again , my first response may have been too fast ..
In order to use videos to do absolute compares you gotta standardized your testing ,
Same mic ,same mic distance from loudspeakers , same recordings SPL , same playback software ..!
You also gotta make sure the systems are not clipping .
If not then its all Bovine entertainment..!
The correct way is in person AB demo sighted and unsighted using the same Parameters ..
Regards
I did not ask you how to “normalize” the analysis. I asked you to name a better tool for such analysis.
Please keep and have your peace back. It was supposed to be a polite simple request…..and then they all came out to play king of the hill.
Yes as usual a cross continent pissing contest ! Long live the internet and its many uses !
Go easy , Im trying my best , waiting for my Vulcan buddy to respond to my lifeline request ..
Whats real funny is you holding on to your non normalized videos telling naught yet proud as S**** ..!
Anyway….
Kudos to @sbnx Todd for this sharing this detailed, informative and most helpful thread and bringing to life the story of what it takes and the rewards of investing a lot of time and energy into speaker set up.
I’ve heard Trios many times and have some appreciation of what they can achieve, and also what happens when they’re sub optimally set up. What Todd has done looks like a masterclass in skilled set up.
It also seems that G3 Trios and Spacehorns are sonically superior to their Duo equivalents- who knew ?! I should bloody well hope so.
The potential of Trios does not diminish the sound that you can get from Duos. I fully recognise that early Duos were not the best in terms of bass and mid integration, and could sound incoherent. However the later models and particularly Duo XD exhibit none of this and are capable of reproducing fabulous music where space or funds for Trio do not allow. I’m looking forward to auditioning Duo GT with my own ears when the opportunity allows
(FWVLIW, some of the alternatives suggested as superior do make me laugh. Devore can sound nice but need very careful matching to fix their inherent flaws, and hORNS Universum have never convinced me even with extended listening at a dealer - if anything sounds broken to my ears it’s these - ymmv).
I find that as in life there are very few absolutes in hifi and many more things that are just opinion. As a rule in life I tend not to place too much trust in opinion stated as fact, especially when it’s given with insistence and 100% conviction. As Bertrand Russell rightly noted, wiser minds can be full of doubt.
I look forward to Todd’s continued experience with Duo GT set up to learn more from.
Kudos to @sbnx Todd for this sharing this detailed, informative and most helpful thread and bringing to life the story of what it takes and the rewards of investing a lot of time and energy into speaker set up.
I’ve heard Trios many times and have some appreciation of what they can achieve, and also what happens when they’re sub optimally set up. What Todd has done looks like a masterclass in skilled set up.
It also seems that G3 Trios and Spacehorns are sonically superior to their Duo equivalents- who knew ?! I should bloody well hope so.
The potential of Trios does not diminish the sound that you can get from Duos. I fully recognise that early Duos were not the best in terms of bass and mid integration, and could sound incoherent. However the later models and particularly Duo XD exhibit none of this and are capable of reproducing fabulous music where space or funds for Trio do not allow. I’m looking forward to auditioning Duo GT with my own ears when the opportunity allows
(FWVLIW, some of the alternatives suggested as superior do make me laugh. Devore can sound nice but need very careful matching to fix their inherent flaws, and hORNS Universum have never convinced me even with extended listening at a dealer - if anything sounds broken to my ears it’s these - ymmv).
I find that as in life there are very few absolutes in hifi and many more things that are just opinion. As a rule in life I tend not to place too much trust in opinion stated as fact, especially when it’s given with insistence and 100% conviction. As Bertrand Russell rightly noted, wiser minds can be full of doubt.
I look forward to Todd’s continued experience with Duo GT set up to learn more from.
Todd, thanks, your comments on set up here are interesting (my highlighting).
Note that my Trios are the older ones where the tweeter horn cannot be moved to time align it. I'll caveat the photo below by stating for the record the set up of my Trios in this new room are still a bit of a work in progress but the requirements are definitely different to a flat ceiling.
These have been in 3 rooms now. In previous rooms I agree the sound has always been best with the tweeters pointing pretty much straight at the listeners head. If I set them like that here the life goes out of the music and the image becomes too central.
In this room with the "cathedral" ceiling they definitely sound better angled out a bit, with the direct point being about 2.5 feet behind my head. In this position the tonality dynamics and soundstaging just seem more convincing. (NB it isn't really practical to move them even further into the room, though I am experimenting with this. I'm sitting further away than 83% ish. )
My paranoia is that I have no idea whether I am tone deaf, or why the ceiling would have that much effect. So I keep fiddling with placement.
Thanks for making me think!
It surprises me somewhat that so many Trio owners place them with tweeters closest together.
I would have thought that the bass should be marginally better if a little further from side walls / corners and that the image-generating treble should be marginally better if a little further apart.
Do Trio users place them where the User Guide suggests, or do they experiment with them switched around?
My Duos don't have this choice as all drivers are vertically aligned - in theory a better situation than the non-alligned Trio geometry!
