Interesting! I found the Nagra to have a more natural tonality and more “drama”. Metronome 2nd best and DCS sounding a bit gray and less dynamic.
Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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I think a missing element in all this is experience . We arent Naturally able to different between quality of systems, and authenticity to instrument timbre, it’s learnt over time
the brain has an amazing ability to interpret through less than stellar sound quality
i believe this also happens listening to these vids, I can sense myself going “ is that a realistic timpani “ “what about that cello”
perhaps some people have less ability to interpolate what they are hearing, or have some auditory agnosia.
also as with all visual media there is a certain amount of suspended disbelief , and if you don’t embrace that, you won’t find this of value
the brain has an amazing ability to interpret through less than stellar sound quality
i believe this also happens listening to these vids, I can sense myself going “ is that a realistic timpani “ “what about that cello”
perhaps some people have less ability to interpolate what they are hearing, or have some auditory agnosia.
also as with all visual media there is a certain amount of suspended disbelief , and if you don’t embrace that, you won’t find this of value
I think its Unbelievable this even required “annoying prodding” as it would seem to me to be self evident especially for an alleged ‘audiophile’
Oooo - a Jacob Heilbrun level word!
The inability to interpret one's sensations ... seems a rather apt description for symptoms splayed across the last three pages or so, as WBF morphs into Facebook.
Ron, my point is that for those who do not get a chance to hear Tang’s new speakers in person, hearing them over a video is the next best thing.
I will add that I have heard David’s system and I have recorded it playing my own LPs. I know how those videos compare to the sound of the actual system. Now hearing David’s video of the speakers he designed for Tang playing familiar music over a system I have spent days listening to gives me a pretty good idea of how those new speakers actually sound, at least in that system and room.
I heard those speakers on videos while being developed with different baffle materials. It was quite easy to hear differences and make meaningful assessments. What I heard was consistent with what David heard live in the room. The videos are a tool, nothing more.
I am currently in the process of developing a solution for the acoustic issues surrounding the protruding fireplace between my two speakers. I am using videos and photographs to record and asses progress and to share the process and get feedback from discussions about the experiments.
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I think you are right and the complexity of how an experienced brain heard allows us to cut through the clutter to make sense of less than stellar recordings.
Take old 78s on a gramophone for an analog example. The objective performance is rather poor, noisy, rolled off at both ends and yet in some important ways it is easier to process for our brain and sounds more realistic in some ways than even high Rez files.
I am not even sure you have to work that much harder to tell differences from a video of whatever quality than being there in real life…maybe the jump up in SQ helps some but maybe not.
As I understand it Peter, you used videos to listen to various development states of Tang's speakers. And to get and share feedback with David about acoustics and setup in your room -- in that instance they are/were a valuable tool.
Overall, for me, videos are more than a tool. They give access to components and systems I would not otherwise get to hear -- they are a way to gain exposure to and enjoyment from gear and music. Videos can be fun in themselves, just as visiting another audiophile can be, videos are virtual visiting. Listening to your cartridge videos to hear the same music with a Master Sig and an Ortofon is fun as well as educational. I became convinced of this through listening to videos posted on WBF and youtube. If others cannot accept this for themselves or are not capable of finding "meaning" in videos, or simply don't get it, then ok fricking fine, but -- and I don't normally say this -- can't we move on -- the impasse has no value.
Overall, for me, videos are more than a tool. They give access to components and systems I would not otherwise get to hear -- they are a way to gain exposure to and enjoyment from gear and music. Videos can be fun in themselves, just as visiting another audiophile can be, videos are virtual visiting. Listening to your cartridge videos to hear the same music with a Master Sig and an Ortofon is fun as well as educational. I became convinced of this through listening to videos posted on WBF and youtube. If others cannot accept this for themselves or are not capable of finding "meaning" in videos, or simply don't get it, then ok fricking fine, but -- and I don't normally say this -- can't we move on -- the impasse has no value.
Listening to 78s on a TD 124 on @montesquieu 's Tannoy Golds is one of the highlights of my visits.
Let's not get arrogant here, that is not the objective. It is not rocket science to listen, the reason for not going to videos is not some inability to listen, and it is not that those who are into videos have some god gifted listening, it is just open mindedness, and doing that repeatedly is what brings about the ability to know what to extrapolate and what not to. We all made shifts from not believing in videos to believing in them, and we should also be wary of over-assumptions made on the basis of videos. So everyone who can make judgements with in-room physical listening can do it with videos to a certain degree, though not as much. Those who cannot, will not be able to make judgements even with physical in-room listening.
Bonzo, what do you think of the recording of his system sound? The in-ear microphones are pretty cool. To me, the system through the video sounds a bit flat, lacking dynamics and energy. Also thin lacking body and rich tone. MF does state in the video that the system video gives "a pretty good idea of how the system sounds." That is an important comment. To me, it sounds pretty typical of a system video. Reminds me of Jay's videos. I like your Altec/horn videos and Tang's more, especially Tang's new speaker videos.
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i didn’t like the sound, it is clear sure, but very artificial like I would expect from that gear, Andy very typical of why I wouldn’t be in the hobby if Wilson and Magico type speakers were the only ones around. I would rather get Kef LS50.
i don’t like Tang’s new videos he has a long way to go to get that system right.
The part in bold reminds me of a recent comment someone made about SETs/horns. There are many different approaches to system building and many preferences. MF seems to have a particular type of preference. These qualities come through clearly on videos. Kudos to MF for sharing it. I wish others would share videos of their systems to support and supplement what they write about the sound.
Thanks for posting, Al. The two are incredibly different sounding. The YouTube original confirms my impression of the sound of MF's system. Of course, this is a tough test.
Apparently there are system videos that overlay the YouTube direct digital feed over the video image. That is why I prefer to watch needle drops and handheld videos for authenticity.
His recording technique is very interesting to me. I was thinking about getting some microphones like that to compare the difference heard at the ears to a typical 2 channel setup with all it's crosstalk and potential tonal issues for the center phantom image vs. the same recording with a 3 channel set up, or crosstalk elimination setup. Listing on headphones to both his recording vs. the original recording as posted by Al M. has led me to no firm conclusion as I'm hearing too many other tonal differences to know for sure what's causing what. Maybe the shape of MF's ears? When I'm actually present I think I can hear the crosstalk with any 2 speaker setup and really don't like it for center phantom vocals like this. My tendency on recordings like this is to intentionally sit off axis and just forget about imaging all together so that one speaker can dominate both volume and arrival time so the vocalist can sound more natural. Honestly I'm still doubting myself about this but every time I try not using a dedicated center speaker I keep going back to it. One of my weird responses to a strong phantom center image is I roll my tongue, like I'm going to somehow fix the subtle oddness I'm perceiving. Most people must not perceive that or 2 speaker setups would not be the audiophile norm.
How is this video with the Dartzeel and cone speakers? It will say Download, it is still processing, but go ahead and do it, please.
drive.google.com
WhatsApp Audio 2023-02-05 at 16.43.34.mp4
drive.google.com
His reviews are very professional. They are less about preference and more about extracting attributes, which can be done in his system or a different sounding one to 90 percent. He is intellectually honest in penning down what he hears to paper, so given what he is (a leading reviewer) that is more important. He is not shoving preferences in his reviews.
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