Audio Research Ref 6SE preamp gets a TAS recommendation.
Whither Audio Research
- Thread starter davidavdavid
- Start date
great review love Tom...He really is spot on about ARC and the REF6 in this review
I just traded up my ARC Ref 5SE to the ARC Ref 6SE at my local (150 miles away) dealer. After 10 days of listening I am thrilled with this upgrade. I hear much better bass, more clarity and more texture in voices. I still have the Ref 2SE Phono preamp. It doesn’t match the style of the Ref 6SE. That bugs me but I do not spend much time listening to vinyl these days to warrant an upgrade just to have matching components. On the other hand, would the Ref 3SE phono give me a similar step up in sound for my records?
In my case, the 3 to 3SE upgrade was worthwhile. Perhaps as dramatic as my 6 to 6SE upgrade.
I have owned Audio Research phono stages for over 30 years, beginning with the original classic Ref Phono. I now have the Ref Phono 3SE. On the face of it, a phono stage that weighs close to 40 pounds, uses almost 10 tubes, and occupies a large amount of shelf space seems a completely ridiculous notion. After all, there are single chip solutions to the problem of taking a low-level signal from a cartridge and performing the RIAA equalization into a normal line level signal. But all such doubts vanish when you hear one of these magnificent beasts. It seems to hardly matter what cartridge I strap on to the Ref Phono 3SE. From a humble Shure moving magnet a fancy Koetsu, it brings out the best in each cartridge, almost to the point of my saying if you have to choose, spend the money on the phono stage, and not the cartridge. Rather than splash out for a really expensive moving coil, save your money and get the Ref Phono 3SE. Forget the fancy cartridge and get a Supex 900 (the Koetsu before Koetsu), a Stanton 881SE, a Shure V15 or any number of olden goldies that can be purchased for a few hundred dollars. To me, your ensuing system will sound far far better with a Ref Phono 3SE combined with a humble basic cartridge than a fancy shmancy cartridge combined with a budget phono stage. Them fighting words, I know, but one I have understood after decades of tinkering about with phono stages at all price levels. Budget phono stages are about the worst designed product in all of hifi. They make even great cartridges sound awful, and they simply cannot cope with the vast amount of information being thrown at them. The Ref Phono 3SE is a supremely poised product that only ARC seems capable of designing and building with their decades of expertise. It is utterly noiseless even with the lowest possible moving coil input, and with 74 dB of gain, you'll never have to worry about what cartridge to get.
Everyone interprets sound/music differently so it's good to have so many choices when it comes to various hifi components and their brands. Once certain tone requirements (perhaps some convenance factors too) are met then it's time to just enjoy the music and perhaps upgrade your music collection.
Music lovers will understand this comment moreso than audiophiles. Audiophiles seem to put constant heavy focus on the equipment, endless tweaks, and consider glossy mag reviews as the gospel from on high, instead of focusing on the primary objective which is the music.
Nothing wrong with being a audiophile, just means that you're more of a equipment hobbyist and love to constantly buy and sell components.
I personally don't buy a lot and rarely sell anything. "Buy once and right" policy defines me fairly well.
There's rarely a conflict among music lovers regarding various musical tracks or scores, yet the equipment crowd seem to butt heads on a regular basis.
Just my opinions and casual observations.
Music lovers will understand this comment moreso than audiophiles. Audiophiles seem to put constant heavy focus on the equipment, endless tweaks, and consider glossy mag reviews as the gospel from on high, instead of focusing on the primary objective which is the music.
Nothing wrong with being a audiophile, just means that you're more of a equipment hobbyist and love to constantly buy and sell components.
I personally don't buy a lot and rarely sell anything. "Buy once and right" policy defines me fairly well.
There's rarely a conflict among music lovers regarding various musical tracks or scores, yet the equipment crowd seem to butt heads on a regular basis.
Just my opinions and casual observations.
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The 5SE had a much more "laid back" presentation than the 6SE being more forward and open. That probably represents a consensus rather than just my opinion going back in the forums. I did not feel the 6SE benefits could be attained with the 2SE, but vinyl is my prefered playback format.
Some good advice here. I'm starting to lean towards upgrading from the Ref 2SE to the Ref 3SE Phono preamp. I've been enamored with my new DAC and Streamer these past 6 months so that I have not played much vinyl. The biggest thing about my new digital side is the musicality and the rhythm and pace match my vinyl rig now- and I spent years of effort getting the rhythm and pace right in my vinyl rig. But that is for another thread.
My first ARC preamp was the SP-6b that I acquired in 1988. I used it for 14 years then switched to a SP-9MKII. Didn't like that one much so I bought a SP-15 which also let me go to MC Cartridges. I used the SP-15 for 15 years when I switched to the Ref 5SE. This time I worked up the nerve to jump to ARC's current offering, the Ref 6SE. I'm inclined to go back and get the Ref 3SE Phono. I'll have the complete set. I'm not giving up on vinyl- too invested in it. But in my system at least, the sound of vinyl and digital are merging. For me it was the rhythm and pace- that final piece of the puzzle, the flow of the music.
My first ARC preamp was the SP-6b that I acquired in 1988. I used it for 14 years then switched to a SP-9MKII. Didn't like that one much so I bought a SP-15 which also let me go to MC Cartridges. I used the SP-15 for 15 years when I switched to the Ref 5SE. This time I worked up the nerve to jump to ARC's current offering, the Ref 6SE. I'm inclined to go back and get the Ref 3SE Phono. I'll have the complete set. I'm not giving up on vinyl- too invested in it. But in my system at least, the sound of vinyl and digital are merging. For me it was the rhythm and pace- that final piece of the puzzle, the flow of the music.
Congrats TonyW on the ARC Ref6se upgrade, there's absolutely no doubt this will revisit your enjoyment of fine tunes!
Over the decades in this nutty passion of highend audio to arrive at the most natural and believable music, I've always stuck to a certain guideline whenever considering upgrades. The performance improvement of the upgraded gear has to meet at least 40%, otherwise it doesn't float my boat. There are plenty of "marginal" improvements in almost every successive model but definitely not 40%. I know this is quite a high percentage but when you consider pricing on the latest & greatest... it really doesn't equate to price vs performance ratio and drastically is no where near 40%.
In certain cases, I will accept a high 38% range, and I've come across some very lofty gear that simply is no where near this benchmark percentage. However, people will buy into the hype simply because they must have it! Until the next best thing arrives and the vicious cycle continues... focusing more on the gear and losing track of the enjoyment of recorded music.
After all, this is recorded music, it's not live maties!
So no matter what diamond or plasma tweeter they use, along with carbon fibre or pure gold dis & dat... if it can't perform close to 40% in improvement, simply not interested. It's just another marginal thing, that's all.
Certainly seems like you've identified a very good unit that delivers a high performance percentage, based on your description of improvements... so overall well done! Now just sit back and enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ
Over the decades in this nutty passion of highend audio to arrive at the most natural and believable music, I've always stuck to a certain guideline whenever considering upgrades. The performance improvement of the upgraded gear has to meet at least 40%, otherwise it doesn't float my boat. There are plenty of "marginal" improvements in almost every successive model but definitely not 40%. I know this is quite a high percentage but when you consider pricing on the latest & greatest... it really doesn't equate to price vs performance ratio and drastically is no where near 40%.
In certain cases, I will accept a high 38% range, and I've come across some very lofty gear that simply is no where near this benchmark percentage. However, people will buy into the hype simply because they must have it! Until the next best thing arrives and the vicious cycle continues... focusing more on the gear and losing track of the enjoyment of recorded music.
After all, this is recorded music, it's not live maties!
So no matter what diamond or plasma tweeter they use, along with carbon fibre or pure gold dis & dat... if it can't perform close to 40% in improvement, simply not interested. It's just another marginal thing, that's all.
Certainly seems like you've identified a very good unit that delivers a high performance percentage, based on your description of improvements... so overall well done! Now just sit back and enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ
Hi RJ,
Can you please describe how you determine a numeric percentage improvement "value" and the difference between a 38 vs 40% improvement? Best.
Can you please describe how you determine a numeric percentage improvement "value" and the difference between a 38 vs 40% improvement? Best.
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I’ve known Big Dog for several years through forums. I expect he will respond himself.
He has used this 40% figure for as long as I’ve known him.
My sense is that in his listening mode, 40% improvement corresponds to his “Wow!” reaction. He has a long long long history of listening to and evaluating gear. He and I often agree on his impressions. But I have to admit, I can’t quantize my impressions at this level of precision.
Regarding the 5SE to 6SE upgrade, the 6 by itself was discernible and worthwhile to my ears. But the 6SE (and 3 to 3SE) upgrades were generated based on what ARC learned from the 160 M project. As I understand it, the 160 M, and now 160M mk2, strutted their stuff with the ref 10 gear, but not with the 6 and 3. So the 6SE and 3SE were born of that observation.
I have personally moved on to Burmester 088 and 911 mk3… but I still prefer the 3SE to the MC phono module that is resident in my 088.
I enjoy reading RJ's insights. Question meant in a respectful, curious manner. Interesting attempt to objectively quantify a subjective scale. No provocation intended. Nice pre and amp by the way. Best.
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In my opinion, the Ref 6SE and Ref3SE phono go together like chocolate and peanut butter. That combo is what I'm mostly using right now. I review gear so things are always changing, but this combo is the best I've had in my system. I'm also using a Ref 80S, which sounds badass.
Trying to dissect and dlfferentiate between gear lovers vs music lovers is a very difficult (if not impossible) task. Many will claim, and rightfully so in my view, that they are joined at the hip. BTW, welcome to WBF.
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You’re suggesting that Audiophile and Music Lover are mutually exclusive terms. I’ve spent a lot of time, effort and money on my system therefore I don’t love music.
When I was in High School, I enjoyed music with my 8 track deck in my car and one 8 track cassette- ELP. In college I moved up to an old Kenwood Receiver and some modified 3 way speakers. I enjoyed music then and I enjoy it now even more. And then there was everything in between 1976 and now.
I have never had a giant library of music- maybe 1500 records or so and perhaps more than that in CDs. I guess that makes me more of a gearhead more than a music lover, by some definitions. Ie. Music lovers have more money invested in their music than their equipment. I’m ok with that. I enjoy what I have immensely. And Qobuz is awesome!
I have never had a giant library of music- maybe 1500 records or so and perhaps more than that in CDs. I guess that makes me more of a gearhead more than a music lover, by some definitions. Ie. Music lovers have more money invested in their music than their equipment. I’m ok with that. I enjoy what I have immensely. And Qobuz is awesome!