Whither Audio Research

You’re suggesting that Audiophile and Music Lover are mutually exclusive terms. I’ve spent a lot of time, effort and money on my system therefore I don’t love music.
No, that is not what I'm suggesting.
I'm suggesting those that change their components as often as they change clothes and continue to do so as a regular thing most certainly are the ones that love equipment and music is very secondary.

I get that technology improves over time and that upgrades are necessary once in a while due to major advancements in technology. This is particularly true regarding digital components and things regarding digital playback. I myself will be likely upgrading my CD player soon because it's 14 years old.

i was on one forum before where the average amount that it's members spent on components annually was €500K - 1M. Essentially every component in a member's system was replaced with a "upgrade" every 2-4 weeks. I view such activities as either being one of confusion or the more obvious which is the member is a equipment hobbyist who likes buying and selling their components on a regular basis simply because they can.
Which one are you?

For me music is one of my many hobbies . I buy what's necessary for me to pursue that hobby. Once the necessary items are gathered then begins the pursuit of that particular hobby.

What I have now in the way of components only cost about €75,000.00 and if I get a new CD player this week the cost will rise to about €87,000.00. Not including phono pickups.
The average cost of member systems here in this forum is about €200,000.00+.

I had a audio system before from 1983 and that lasted until 2006 at which time I decided to redo it in order to assemble a final setup.
I kept my tape deck and a receiver out of that first system. A lot time was spent auditioning components before deciding to buy. Not that I'm short on funds but more like I wanted to buy right the first time. So from 2006-2011 I did just that.

I'm not a fan of moving but I recently sold my house of 30 years and now I'm in a nice apartment in Zurich looking for a new house to buy and retire.

Sorry if I offended you or others like you but I always state at the end of my comments: "Just my opinion(s)".

Just my opinions.
Have a nice day.
 
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Hi RJ,

Can you please describe how you determine a numeric percentage improvement "value" and the difference between a 38 vs 40% improvement? Best.
Ah! I was actually waiting for this question!
No worries at all matey, always happy to help / explain such findings to a good mate.

Yes, as AJ rightly pointed out, 40% is my benchmark, which in fact didn't happen overnight, rather it took me a few good years to really figure out what's going on in terms of system synergy.

The 40% is not achieved by just one component on its own. It's a factor of 4 elements that would contribute to the sum of 40% or higher. The 4 elements I'm referring to are:
1. Clarity & definition
2. Tonal integrity without smeaming or artificial enhancements.
3. Musical presentation in terms of absolute capture of the recording.
4. Soundstage depth and presence (more of the full 3D holographic detail).

If I were to explain each point, people reading this would have to take annual leave just to go through it.. it'll probably end up like a thesis. So I'll skip that part and allow you to decipher each of these four elements, I'm sure you'll know what I'm referring to.

Now, what I do is allocate only 10% to each of these elements, of which if each element remains at its top most performance level then when all added up = 40%.

After placing in the new / upgraded component, it simply cannot perform a full 40% on its own, no way. What it's actually doing is operating in synergy with the rest of your system gear. So for example, that first element (clarity & definition) will also heavily depend on the speakers (plus cables). Then the elements of performance criteria continue... finally towards the last point (Soundstage depth & presence) more of that full 3D affect, will also be influenced by the rest of the amplifiers, source gear etc. Either way, if each of these areas are performing to their optimal, I will only place 10% as the highest margin. So then when each of them are performing tops and let's say one particular area (clarity & definition) exceeds 10%... then in which case that 40% benchmark will be surpassed!

That's the point where I go "wow!!! " stand up and start clapping, more or less a stop the train moment. That hasn't happened too often, and when it does, it's definitely very noticeable. There has to be system synergy and the other components are also contributing since they too are of very high quality on par.

A good example is, when I was on a quest to upgrade my digital playback system, from my long term trusted McIntosh player, the majority of players I tried didn't quite make it to even 20%. In which case, the Mac player was still quite good as it was. I think I went through about 15 different player, if memory serves correctly, to finally arrive at the Esoteric digital player. That one was more like an astounding 50%! It just performed with an awe-inspiring level, shattered all boundaries and still continues to impress.

Sure there are other digital players out there that will surpass this level but then at what cost? So I'd be looking at spending over 70grand just for an absolute improvement... forget it! Happy with the one that's playing now. It's good enough.

Another tangible example was when I upgraded to the Nordost Tyr2 speaker cables from the Heimdall2 version. That was another level exceeding 40% easily, and it's now at a very fine stage that I'm not going to spend anything further than that. Sure the Odin Supreme reference Gold2 would be wonderful but at 35grand just for 1metre... no thanks!

40% is quite a high margin, yet still its actually achievable if all other gear is in sync. If after evaluating each of those elements, and when totalled you arrive at 38%, that's still good enough. Then comes the price factor to consider. If the price is outrageously high then that purchase whether to proceed or not can only be justified by the owner. Heck! I know quite a few who've spent over 50grand just for a 5% improvement, that's very marginal. In any case, it's their money spent not mine and in some cases those owners have experienced diminishing returns. Maybe they should have waited bit longer for a more significant model to upgrade to. Don't know.

Hope that helps!
In all do respect, I'm only replying to your question... really don't want to derail the thread here, afterall it's about TonyW's latest upgrade on his ARC REFse gear. Good stuff!
Cheers, RJ
 
Thank you mate. A very gracious, reality based audio hobbyist / music lover and a wonderful response to my inquiry. Back to the OP's thread. Best.
 
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The average cost of member systems here in this forum is about €200,000.00+.
No offense taken although I’m not sure who you’re referring to when you say “others like you.” In any event, I’m curious about your estimate of the cost of members systems here. Was there a poll on that topic or something else?
 
I'm suggesting those that change their components as often as they change clothes and continue to do so as a regular thing most certainly are the ones that love equipment and music is very secondary.

i was on one forum before where the average amount that it's members spent on components annually was €500K - 1M. Essentially every component in a member's system was replaced with a "upgrade" every 2-4 weeks.
How did you determine the average "upgrade" dollar amount per year for forum members? How many folks do you personally know on that forum that, for a fact, upgrade their system every two to four weeks?
Which one are you?
Sounds very accusatory, not opinionated to me.
The average cost of member systems here in this forum is about €200,000.00+.
Per your profile, you joined WBF eight days ago and have posted 54 times. Is that information correct? What is your source of information to substantiate this claim and how did you determine this average? My current system cost is $900 excluding my laptop and my $10 / month music streaming cost.
Sorry if I offended you or others like you but I always state at the end of my comments: "Just my opinion(s)".
You may want to consider providing factual data to back up your claims and a more modest, less aggressive tone when you post. Just my opinion. Have a nice day.
 
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