Audio Business practice and protocol

A lesson from childhood “If you don’t have anything nice say, don’t say anything at all.”

”Hobbyists” do plenty of sniping and commenting, industry professionals should do their best to steer clear, perhaps an exception would be a dealer with a proven history of unethical or illegal behavior should be called out.

Even reviewers typically get this — while hobbyists would love to read a takedown of a product they have had a bad experience with, reviewers will try to avoid an outright slam, letting the reader ”read between the lines“ or perhaps damning the product with faint praise. But this is the realm of reviewers, not dealer on dealer, or manufacturer on manufacture public commenting.

When I became affiliated with Rhapsody.Audio, I was rather surprised the feedback I received “oh now he’s a dealer you can’t trust anything he says” because I believed my history showed a fair and balanced mindset. But as a result I have tried very hard to be aware of this perception and modified my commenting accordingly. I don’t always get it right.

For the most part is a hobby and people treat others pretty well, and most professionals act “professionally.” Exceptions certainly exist and forums can be a cesspool, but I’ve not seen many examples of dealer on dealer crime! (My experience is far less than many, so I'm sure there are horror stories.)

not in the hifi industry, but was a cub reviewer for Positive Feedback for a year or so back in 2004-2005. OTOH i was a GM of a franchised Honda dealership for 40+ years in a very competitive marketplace. the car biz is very social media and image conscious, so this issue was always top mind for me. how to relate things publicly relative to your competitors? customers are always comparing dealerships and brands far beyond just price or product.

honestly the biggest difference between the car business and the hifi business is that it takes a huge investment to operate a car dealership and you have to always see the long game, and protect your investment and reputation. so every word you say or write needs to have some thought behind it. and there is no free lunch. step out of line and it will be flying back in your face to smack you. could put you out of business and cost real people jobs.

but hifi requires almost zero capital investment, and relatively little to lose. small dealers have no fixed costs or liabilities. owners don't even many times understand that they hold the bag. and many times their hifi business is a sideline. so you will always run the gamut of human variations in how business is conducted. it's a crap shoot. it's a very casual environment. and these days as Elliot always says, manufacturers don't hold dealers very accountable as they have much less leverage.

yet as we are all hobbyists and doing what we love to some degree it sort of goes ok. but don't expect good behavior because business demands it, more that we are nice people. and those that have self image issues or maybe don't play nice are easy to spot, and there is nothing we can do to change that. as hifi is just not that regulated or nailed down. expecting any consensus on dealer communication expectations is a nice idea.....but it's more like herding cats.

sure there are a few big players that do run a tight ship and hold dealers accountable, but very few.

I have seen much too much of this behavior and most of it is way off base and out of line. We live in a world today where anyone can be an "influencer" and a dealer for audio. The barriers are virtually non existant.
I ve seen many snipes that have been taken at companies, people and products without facts and spreading rumors or jaded opinions is totally unprofessional.

tima said:

Question: As a common practice should you be publicly commenting or passing judgement on other dealer's and manufacturer's products and service in audio forums?
Is that a good idea?

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I don't think so. As a pure hobbyist one is free to say whatever. Hopefully still in the constructive criticism category. Once someone is a dealer or represents a specific brand(s) it would be bad form to say negative things about other brands. I think this is why this forum takes a very strong stand that you have to declare your industry affiliation. I do think it would be ok to talk about the good things the represented brand has to offer in the context of the discussion happening in some specific thread.

I remember many moons ago when I was shopping for an amplifier. I was interested in the Levinson 333 and the Krell KSA-300S. I was speaking with the Krell dealer and asking his thoughts on the two. I thought his response was very classy. He said both are great amplifiers and it just comes down to which one fits best in my system. He went on to say I am not going to say a Ferrari is junk just because I sell Lamborghini.

I like Elliot's saying -- "These aren't things I sell. These are things people buy". Ultimately, I think most people have already made up their mind on what they want.

tima said:

Question: As a common practice should you be publicly commenting or passing judgement on other dealer's and manufacturer's products and service in audio forums?
Is that a good idea?

In this highly competitive business, how should industry participants publicly interact ?

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Off course , if you can t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen( industry )

sbnx said:

I don't think so. As a pure hobbyist one is free to say whatever. Hopefully still in the constructive criticism category

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Fully agree , why do you think a forum like WBF is kind of popular in the first place , people are tired of swapping the next best magazine trophy 3 months after purchase .

I always believe that one should not talk down the competition. Talk up your product and services strengths. Based on research I saw, most high end customers are fairly well off. I think with that in mind, a consultative sale is the only way to go. Most intelligent people hate any kind of hard sell. Even a whiff of that is death.

One problem the industry has is the old 80s dealer mentality of "if I don't carry it, then it must suck." That has to stop.

One thing that @Elliot G. and I talked about today is how the watch business has grown. A big factor is that there is no animosity at the $1,500 watch buyer. They recognize that buyer will possibly be a potential Patek or FP Journe buyer down the road. You have to look at the customer lifecycle over time to do really well.

"You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar."

Bobvin said:

A lesson from childhood “If you don’t have anything nice say, don’t say anything at all.”

”Hobbyists” do plenty of sniping and commenting, industry professionals should do their best to steer clear, perhaps an exception would be a dealer with a proven history of unethical or illegal behavior should be called out.

Even reviewers typically get this — while hobbyists would love to read a takedown of a product they have had a bad experience with, reviewers will try to avoid an outright slam, letting the reader ”read between the lines“ or perhaps damning the product with faint praise. But this is the realm of reviewers, not dealer on dealer, or manufacturer on manufacture public commenting.

When I became affiliated with Rhapsody.Audio, I was rather surprised the feedback I received “oh now he’s a dealer you can’t trust anything he says” because I believed my history showed a fair and balanced mindset. But as a result I have tried very hard to be aware of this perception and modified my commenting accordingly. I don’t always get it right.

For the most part is a hobby and people treat others pretty well, and most professionals act “professionally.” Exceptions certainly exist and forums can be a cesspool, but I’ve not seen many examples of dealer on dealer crime! (My experience is far less than many, so I'm sure there are horror stories.)

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Bob, I'm generally in agreement except for one area where I have some understanding, in part from working on TAS global dealer showcase. That is the thorny question of dealer territory. There are loads of stories from independent, gray market, national or "super-regional" dealers stealing customers of other dealers by paying the customer's taxes, offering a better discount, etc. This can also be difficult to patrol by the manufacturer.

There are also numerous examples of a manufacturer hiring a distributor then cutting the distributor off even if they grew the brand substantially.

I'm also aware of certain brands controlling what other brands a dealer can carry. Sometimes the ask by the manufacturer gets ridiculous.

It's not all roses out there.

@ Lee
I agree with most you say , but good dealers dont really need protection .
Honest good service / open door mentality and a nice listening room go a long way , people will come back

andromedaaudio said:

@ Lee
I agree with most you say , but good dealers dont really need protection .
Honest good service / open door mentality and a nice listening room go a long way , people will come back

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Sure, but that's a different question than the OP.

Lee said:

It's not all roses out there.

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I send at least 15 dealers in belgium / holland an email with pictures of my latest speaker design / website adres plus an offer to come by for a demonstration of my new design with no strings attached .
None have replied i wont mention names off course .
They are playing safe only , none will take any risk.
Should i feel sorry for them ,..... i dont think so

Lee said:

Bob, I'm generally in agreement except for one area where I have some understanding, in part from working on TAS global dealer showcase. That is the thorny question of dealer territory. There are loads of stories from independent, gray market, national or "super-regional" dealers stealing customers of other dealers by paying the customer's taxes, offering a better discount, etc. This can also be difficult to patrol by the manufacturer.

There are also numerous examples of a manufacturer hiring a distributor then cutting the distributor off even if they grew the brand substantially.

I'm also aware of certain brands controlling what other brands a dealer can carry. Sometimes the ask by the manufacturer gets ridiculous.

It's not all roses out there.

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This Industry killed the roses a long time ago. Its the wild wild west these days.

Unfortunately the audio industry is too small for brand stores .
Better for manufacturers and customers in the end .

Like ..... Apple , Samsung , Mercedes BMW

andromedaaudio said:

I send at least 15 dealers in belgium / holland an email with pictures of my latest speaker design / website adress

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You should have sent videos

bonzo75 said:

You should have sent videos

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I wanted too but they had no time they were repairing the air-conditioning ventilator inlet
....Altec ...or something
.