Extreme Luxury Pricing in Audio

[morricab]

Fully agree, but is skips a relevant question we were discussing: in real world, choosing wisely, can we expect an existing $500k euro speaker to have better performance than a $100k one? Are high prices a social-economic process, just due due to wealth and free will or are they a manifestation of superior sound reproduction?

Apologies for focusing just on speakers, but they seem the less controversial of all high-end gear!

That is the question, is ultra priced gear actually advancing anything? In some rather case I think yes but on the whole I think mostly no.

 

[dcathro]

That is the question, is ultra priced gear actually advancing anything? In some rather case I think yes but on the whole I think mostly no.

I think you have to think of direction. It depends on which way you want things to go, for some there is advancement, whilst others may think it is regression or at best no real progress.

 

[morricab]

I think you have to think of direction. It depends on which way you want things to go, for some there is advancement, whilst others may think it is regression or at best no real progress.

I would not say regression because there are some very good recent designs…particularly in horn speakers and amplifiers. But listening to nearly 100 year old WE theater speakers can make one question progress. Even 1950s JBL Hartsfields will leave one doing some head scratching.

 

[Audire]

Joe, panels for you? I assume this is for a second listening room you are building.

My system currently sits in the great room. There’s an 8’ absorption / diffusion panel behind our set up. The silk trees also aid in diffusion.

Whenever (taken a long time) the architect finishes the plans of our new home which includes a listening room - 17.6 x 28.6 x 11 - it may have panels too. We’re are going to take it very slow on Acoustic panels though. If we use any they will be Vicoustic.

 

[wil]

. But the real question is that if high prices are luxury or performance

That is exactly the point.

The example of the million $ cart, among others, exemplify a total disconnect between price and performance. This type of bold luxury pricing, while at present is relatively rare, I believe does/can have a perverse effect on pricing/marketing at the high end of audio. I think that’s evident from some of the pricing we see that far outstrip inflation.

That’s not to say many companies at the high end don’t provide reasonable pricing for what’s provided. (like Taiko Audio and Areis Cerat being two I have personal experience with).

 

[Ron Resnick]

Forgive me, but I really don't understand something. Why are people still talking about the million dollar cartridge as though it were a real price and a real offering -- and not a joke?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I would not say regression because there are some very good recent designs…But listening to nearly 100 year old WE theater speakers can make one question progress. Even 1950s JBL Hartsfields will leave one doing some head scratching.

Head scratching, by some, if not many, for sure.* But it is interesting how few contemporary loudspeaker people are converted by the head scratching frointo vintage loudspeakers + SET purchasers. (Yes, Kedar, not all vintage loudspeaker sound the same; not all horn loudspeakers sound the same; I am deliberately omitting DIY.)

David seems to convert about 25% of visitors? I think 25% is a big conversion rate. But I also think it's a small and self-selecting visitor pool/data set, and so probably not statistically valid.

Brad, what do you think is the conversion rate after an audiophile hears WE or Hartsfields and the like?

*Certainly including me.

PS: I know we disagree on the Tune Audio Avaton, but between David's system and the Avaton I had some serious audio soul-searching to do.

 

[wil]

Forgive me, but I really don't understand something. Why are people still talking about the million dollar cartridge as though it were a real price and a real offering -- and not a joke?

I hoped it was, but there’ been no evidence that it’s a joke. It’s on a company website with listed specs different from the $50k models.

 

[Elliot G.]

I hoped it was, but there’ been no evidence that it’s a joke. It’s on a company website with listed specs different from the $50k models.

Does anyone truly believe someone will buy a 1.1 million dollar "needle"? I don't!

 

[Another Johnson]

Unless they’ve been sent here by Dad for college (to get them out of the more dangerous home country), I doubt you’ll see them as part of your walk-in trade.

For all you know, Herve has already gotten orders for 10.

The biggest market in the highest end audio is in the Middle East, and Asia.

Why do you think it is unusual to see 4 in a model number (except for McIntosh)? It’s because 4 is associated with death in much of Asian Culture. Why do you think CJ is going with all the 8s? 8 is a very lucky number in much of Asian Culture.

I’ve known guys who could easily buy a million dollar cartridge and would be motivated to do so if they were sufficiently impressed by the guy who built it. There are people with sufficient wealth to consider a million bucks as chump change. They’re not hanging out here posting about their system. They’re boasting more quietly in a group of peers.

If you want to find out if it’s a joke, put one in your cart. You’ll be vetting Herve … and he’ll be vetting you. First one disappointed has the right to an apology.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I put one in the cart just to see if a smiley face emoticon popped up. Nope. BTW: it does say "free shipping" so that's generous, I think. Surely, the diamond is flawless and none of this VVS1 crapola.

Million here. Million there. Before you know it, you're talking real money.

 

[Audire]

Does the million dollar cart play $500,000 records?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...ha, the inside scoop is: it *only* plays 500K records! That's where they make the real money.

 

[Another Johnson]

...ha, the inside scoop is: it *only* plays 500K records! That's where they make the real money.

Will it play Sun pressings of The Million Dollar Quartet?

 

[gleeds]

My system currently sits in the great room. There’s an 8’ absorption / diffusion panel behind our set up. The silk trees also aid in diffusion.

Whenever (taken a long time) the architect finishes the plans of our new home which includes a listening room - 17.6 x 28.6 x 11 - it may have panels too. We’re are going to take it very slow on Acoustic panels though. If we use any they will be Vicoustic.

Joe, sounds exciting! Why panels and not a larger Magico's e.g. M6's? I'm always curious about panels vs. "cones and domes", even very special ones like Magico's

On acoustic treatment you may also want to look at DR Acoustics in California. They make brilliant solutions, mainly found in recording locations and in my interior designers view high brow functional design. For bass absorption take a look at the PSI active bass absorbers, also from the pro audio world. I recently worked with them and there is nothing like them for performance and best of all they are barely visible. FYI, Ron Resnick uses them in his listening room.

I look forward to following your thread as your new home project progresses.

 

[Audire]

Joe, sounds exciting! Why panels and not a larger Magico's e.g. M6's? I'm always curious about panels vs. "cones and domes", even very special ones like Magico's

On acoustic treatment you may also want to look at DR Acoustics in California. They make brilliant solutions, mainly found in recording locations and in my interior designers view high brow functional design. For bass absorption take a look at the PSI active bass absorbers, also from the pro audio world. I recently worked with them and there is nothing like them for performance and best of all they are barely visible. FYI, Ron Resnick uses them in his listening room.

I look forward to following your thread as your new home project progresses.

I feel like the Magicos are a good introduction to Hi End speakers but as Paul Harvey use to say “now for the rest of the story.”

I heard the Alsyvox and was blown away. And I’ve heard a lot of Maggie’s - and they relax me. Don’t get me wrong the Magicos sound really really good, but the Alsyvox sound like they are on a different level … That’s just me, others may have another opinion. Of course, I may change my mind 50 times before before our hopeful new home is built. I’m still looking to hear Lansche in my system.

And if we don‘t build the new home then we will hopefully be closing in our back porch area to make an audio room and will have to build another back porch area as well. It’s very difficult though in this area to find builders that will do such a small job - housing in booming here in FL, so builders go for the larger projects…

Thanks for the ideas on these other Acoustic ideas. I’ll research them out.

 

[Lee]

I hoped it was, but there’ been no evidence that it’s a joke. It’s on a company website with listed specs different from the $50k models.

Of course it's real! I bought three of them.

 

[morricab]

Head scratching, by some, if not many, for sure.* But it is interesting how few contemporary loudspeaker people are converted by the head scratching frointo vintage loudspeakers + SET purchasers. (Yes, Kedar, not all vintage loudspeaker sound the same; not all horn loudspeakers sound the same; I am deliberately omitting DIY.)

David seems to convert about 25% of visitors? I think 25% is a big conversion rate. But I also think it's a small and self-selecting visitor pool/data set, and so probably not statistically valid.

Brad, what do you think is the conversion rate after an audiophile hears WE or Hartsfields and the like?

*Certainly including me.

PS: I know we disagree on the Tune Audio Avaton, but between David's system and the Avaton I had some serious audio soul-searching to do.

Hard to give hard numbers but it often comes down to space as horns are big and WAF as much as sound I find.
At least over hear the conversion rate is higher than 25%. Some of us planar guys switched and brought some conventional guys along as well. Odeon was/is a popular choice and Christoph got Universums.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Regarding cone speakers you dont need to spend ludicrous amounts of money to get top sound .
The tech is just not that complicated / expensive .
What is expensive is the housing , probably the most ambitious designs ( if you like non resonant loudspeakers )are the Rockport Orion / lyra and Kharma exquisite .

Both the Orion and Kharma can be had for around 130 K .

Get a wadax and some nice amps and it doesnt get any better

 

[morricab]

Head scratching, by some, if not many, for sure.* But it is interesting how few contemporary loudspeaker people are converted by the head scratching frointo vintage loudspeakers + SET purchasers. (Yes, Kedar, not all vintage loudspeaker sound the same; not all horn loudspeakers sound the same; I am deliberately omitting DIY.)

David seems to convert about 25% of visitors? I think 25% is a big conversion rate. But I also think it's a small and self-selecting visitor pool/data set, and so probably not statistically valid.

Brad, what do you think is the conversion rate after an audiophile hears WE or Hartsfields and the like?

*Certainly including me.

PS: I know we disagree on the Tune Audio Avaton, but between David's system and the Avaton I had some serious audio soul-searching to do.

You’ve heard Jeff’s Hartsfields?